Reply to: Unreasonable hours - help from the expierenced contractor required!

[2BIT]

Does anyone think that doubling my day rate would be an option? I.e requesting double days for a nights work?

Clearly the hours are unreasonable and at the moment I have yet to agree them.

In your experience whats the likelihood of a client agreeing a couple of additional days on top of the normal rate?

whilst you cant dictate the working hours of an organization you can certainly choose not to work there because of working hours - I don't think you are gonna get much luck trying to get them to treat you differently which is why i suggest leaving rather than fighting, go find a role with decent hours because as a contractor you have that freedom

[craig1]

Works for me as I define what it is. Never had a problem so far...

I envy your ability to trust... I'm obviously just a cynical, miserable, bitter and twisted contractor

[northernladuk]

Works for me as I define what it is. Never had a problem so far...

Hurrah!! SAme here

Does anyone think that doubling my day rate would be an option? I.e requesting double days for a nights work?

Double days is a bit much for a nights work IMO.

[ratewhore]

"Professional working day" is rarely acceptable unless defined.

Works for me as I define what it is. Never had a problem so far...

[BentheBA]

Does anyone think that doubling my day rate would be an option? I.e requesting double days for a nights work?

Clearly the hours are unreasonable and at the moment I have yet to agree them.

In your experience whats the likelihood of a client agreeing a couple of additional days on top of the normal rate?

[jmo21]

It depends how much you need the role, and how quickly you think you could find another one.

If you are confident you could, I'd be inclined to simply tell them you were not aware of this shift requirement and that your circumstances do not suit working those hours.

Being a contractor, this might get you the chop however.

[lukemg]

They are taking the piss but if you are desperate I would stay and start looking. First off though I would be playing the kids (missus away or works in the evening) or sick relative card to exclude me from any out-of-hours work. If they then wanted to bin me, probably best all round.

[SueEllen]

I wouldn't fight it just get out as soon as you can - you don't wanna be anywhere near a place like that and as a contractor you get to pick your hours

There always tends to be some constraints in which you can pick your hours if you have to work on client site and/or have to work with the permies.

Most client sites are only open between hours for security reasons, so for example trying to work in the middle of the night won't work.

Likewise if you have to work with permies then it's no good you working in the middle of the night, if they work in the day. Even if you don't work with permies and have to work with other contractors then issues like travel and family come into play.

[2BIT]

I wouldn't fight it just get out as soon as you can - you don't wanna be anywhere near a place like that and as a contractor you get to pick your hours

[craig1]

In future what wording is appropriate for the contract in terms of hours? I dont want to tie myself into 9-5 working hours but at the same time I dont want to have the piss taken out of me so whats a pragmatic solution? What is a sensible line to include in a contract? Ive needed to be on site in terms of access to the clients email and network, and need to be here to meet with other employees, its banking so cant use my own tools.

One of my last contracts had this on the "hours" bit of the schedule:

A billable day consists of a minimum of seven hours of work in a single given day. This work will be performed at any time between 8am and 6pm at the discretion of (my company). Work done outside of this time window is additionally chargeable at £ (twice the pro-rated daily rate) per hour when agreed in advance between (my company) and (client).

[contractoralan]

Im going to raise it with the agency (who Im sure will forward straight on to the client). Im the intermediary so its the agency I deal with.

Talk with the client. Because it is they who dictate terms.
Don't be surprised if you find that the client has offered some extra cash for night work but the agency has been silent about it.

[BentheBA]

Thanks for the comments and feedback, I guess some of us learn the hard way.

Im going to raise it with the agency (who Im sure will forward straight on to the client). Im the intermediary so its the agency I deal with. Im hoping to come to an amicable solution... Personally I could do with the money. Although im on one weeks notice so if I need to I can leave.

In future what wording is appropriate for the contract in terms of hours? I dont want to tie myself into 9-5 working hours but at the same time I dont want to have the piss taken out of me so whats a pragmatic solution? What is a sensible line to include in a contract? Ive needed to be on site in terms of access to the clients email and network, and need to be here to meet with other employees, its banking so cant use my own tools.

As for specifying the work in the contract, by default isnt accepting a contract on a time basis e.g 3 months, contrary to specifying the work undertaken. Most contractors in service based roles that Ive worked with (business analyst, project management etc) appear to do this on a time basis rather than being specific about work (and appear to me to do what they are told). Are they contravening IR35?

If it was done on work, say I finished a piece of work early should I terminate the contract and refuse any additional work? From a pragmatic point of view would it not be better to be flexible and hence not be extremley specific about work being undertaken?

Out the outset the first 3 months of the contract had a clear deliverable which I could have put in the contract, the second three months had a clear deliverable which I completed early, it now seems to have morphed in to more of a support role.

For my future reference, should I have included these deliverables in the contract? And what do I do if I finish early (but get work related to the deliverable)? Do I just keep my head down for the remainder or do I terminate the contract because if IR35?

[JamJarST]

I presume that you're the Intermediary. If you don't agree then don't do it!

That is exactly how I read it too. Of course it doesn't change the fact that if he says no, they may terminate the contract.

[Spacecadet]

"The Intermediary shall provide the Services at such times and at such locations as agency name and the Intermediary shall agree from time to time."

I presume that you're the Intermediary. If you don't agree then don't do it!

[Sockpuppet]

Thanks, learning the hard way!

If you don't want to do it tell them. However be prepared that they could say "ok, contract terminated". Even if you've got a notice period they can say "Contract terminated at < insert date 4 weeks away>" all your work between now and then is cancelled = no pay to you.