Reply to: New contract but do I have grounds to switch agent?

[PinkPoshRat]

Anyone who has ever been burned by agency going under (like myself) never accepts payment terms like that. Losing about 5-6 weeks expected earning is bad enough, 8-9 weeks can mess up your entire year

I'm one of the ex-Pendragon contractors, so nuff said!

[Not So Wise]

I actually disagree with you on that. I am on 30 days with my current agent and this is becoming more and more prevalent. I am in the porstion to actually look at my agents vendor account and I can see that thay are paid 45 days.

And what does that have to do with anything? (them getting paid on 45 days..which is actually pretty good for a agency, known many than have not got their money for 90 days)

Unless they are taking a very small margin they should be factoring for the contractor, otherwise take themselves out of the equation after a few months

Actually experience has taught me, longer they take to pay contractor, bigger their margin is, it's about greed.

Anyone who has ever been burned by agency going under (like myself) never accepts payment terms like that. Losing about 5-6 weeks expected earning is bad enough, 8-9 weeks can mess up your entire year

[PinkPoshRat]

If all else fails I have the desk phone number of the hiring manager (he actually gave me his number to call if I hadn't heard back by the end of this week) I could always call him and explain that I wanted the role, but was unable to accept it due to financial constraints (or something along those lines) Last thing I need is for the agency to drop me in the tulip by telling the hiring manager that my reasons for not accepting the contract are anything different.

[SueEllen]

I'm still on a learning curve, so please don't bully me. I really could do with some tips. Agent A has told me that the contract is still being signed off at the client end. Now from my end, and having reading a few posts on the subject, I need to ask Agent A for a 'sample' or 'in principle' type of contract now?

Generally if the agency is large or their contract is one that has actually seen the hands of a solicitor, they will send you a copy of the contract via email as soon as you ask for it.

Solicitors phrase things in a particular way.

Once you start reading a few contracts and get solicitors to write things for you in legal speak, you can then start seeing which contracts have had clauses and phrases which have been added to by the agencies themselves.

[SueEllen]

I've looked into my 2nd tier agency (the ones with the 30 day payments) as it happens the Tier 1 makes payments to their contractors after a week, so I would think that my tier 2 agency would also get payments after a week?

Not necessarily.

Tier 2 agency is likely to have bigger payments so they may get paid every 30 days.

The agency are now trying to get references from me (so I have given them a 'reference' from an umbrella company who know me very well ) Agency also tell me that they need to talk to one of their directors to see whether they can pay me after a week too....

Also make "friends" with other contractors particularly if they are programme managers etc as most of the time they will be happy to give a reference for you. If they are astute they can ask the agency asking them for a reference if they have any contracting opportunities for them.

Am I the only contractor who has ever found themselves in a position of not being able to afford the costs involved with taking up contracts miles from home, and not having enough money in the pot to wait 30 days before getting paid?

Nope the guy who took over from me had that. However the agency does monthly billing with payment after 7 days.

[PinkPoshRat]

I actually disagree with you on that. I am on 30 days with my current agent and this is becoming more and more prevalent. I am in the porstion to actually look at my agents vendor account and I can see that thay are paid 45 days.

I've looked into my 2nd tier agency (the ones with the 30 day payments) as it happens the Tier 1 makes payments to their contractors after a week, so I would think that my tier 2 agency would also get payments after a week?

The agency are now trying to get references from me (so I have given them a 'reference' from an umbrella company who know me very well ) Agency also tell me that they need to talk to one of their directors to see whether they can pay me after a week too....

Am I the only contractor who has ever found themselves in a position of not being able to afford the costs involved with taking up contracts miles from home, and not having enough money in the pot to wait 30 days before getting paid?

[JamJarST]

You have actually hit quite a few of the warning signs
[LIST][*]30 days to pay terms (on monthly invoice, weekly it is acceptable) to me is indication of

1. Agency with cash flow issues
2. Greedy agency that wants money for nothing (as one of the services they get paid for is factoring, 30 days on monthly invoice means they are doing little if any factoring)
3. Both of the above

I actually disagree with you on that. I am on 30 days with my current agent and this is becoming more and more prevalent. I am in the porstion to actually look at my agents vendor account and I can see that thay are paid 45 days.

[Not So Wise]

So the help I really just need is in knowing what exactly should I ask the agent to do, and most importantly what kind of warning signs should I watch out for?

Thanks all

You have actually hit quite a few of the warning signs

• 30 days to pay terms (on monthly invoice, weekly it is acceptable) to me is indication of
  1. Agency with cash flow issues
  2. Greedy agency that wants money for nothing (as one of the services they get paid for is factoring, 30 days on monthly invoice means they are doing little if any factoring)
  3. Both of the above
• 2nd tier provider
• Being stupid enough to steal off the 1st tier provider (which regardless of it being true or not will now affect relationship between two...which might affect you if you sign with the 2nd tier

You mention you hope they will pay you early each time, wrong way to plan really, always assume agency will keep the money (earning interest) for the maximum time contractually allowed (or even longer) and plan accordingly. If payment is made earlier than contract terms then pure bonus.

Any verbal promises by the pimp are not worth the paper they are written on, as long as he gets paid he will not care when agency pays you

[PinkPoshRat]

I'm still on a learning curve, so please don't bully me. I really could do with some tips. Agent A has told me that the contract is still being signed off at the client end. Now from my end, and having reading a few posts on the subject, I need to ask Agent A for a 'sample' or 'in principle' type of contract now?

I am sure that if I don't ask for one, the agent will send their 30 payment terms (etc) bog-standard contract to me to sign, and that's no use for me.

I have also learned (big thank you to all for teaching me) that I should NEVER OPT OUT of the agency regs.

So the help I really just need is in knowing what exactly should I ask the agent to do, and most importantly what kind of warning signs should I watch out for?

Thanks all

[SueEllen]

I would never be in the position of proving that there was any breach of DPA, so I'll have to go along with agent A. I know that the role itself is proving hard to fill, so with a bit of luck I'll be able to use that as a bargaining tool when it comes to signing a contract. If all else fails, I'm no worse off by not starting with their contract.

You don't have to prove anything.

It's for the information commissioner to ask the questions and do an investigation if the initial answers don't look good.

While the information commissioner doesn't give companies large fines, the hassle of being investigated and being put under their radar is enough to make most companies * back off.

BTW I have told someone to do this in the past over something else. He just stated what he suspected even though he had no proof and the investigation turned into a big one.

*Financial companies are suppose to report their indiscretions to the information commissioner when they happen.

[PinkPoshRat]

It's a breach of the data protection act if they have stolen people's personal details i.e. names and addresses.

If you really want to go with the agent B who pays the fastest then go with them.

However you have to be prepared to play dirty if agent A hassles you. That includes threatening and actually carrying out the threat of reporting agent A to the information commissioner.

I would never be in the position of proving that there was any breach of DPA, so I'll have to go along with agent A. I know that the role itself is proving hard to fill, so with a bit of luck I'll be able to use that as a bargaining tool when it comes to signing a contract. If all else fails, I'm no worse off by not starting with their contract.

[SueEllen]

What I have now been told is that the HR dept are drawing up a list of all contractors who are through Agent A. The list will be compared against names help with Agent B.

I think what is happening now is that agent b wants see whether their man (the rogue agent) took a load of contractor's names/cv's/contact details with him when he left, and transferred this info over to Agent A's database. In my limited knowledge, it could be classed along the lines of stealing data/intellectual property or something..?

It's a breach of the data protection act if they have stolen people's personal details i.e. names and addresses.

If you really want to go with the agent B who pays the fastest then go with them.

However you have to be prepared to play dirty if agent A hassles you. That includes threatening and actually carrying out the threat of reporting agent A to the information commissioner.

[Wanderer]

I discover that Agent A is a 2nd tier supplier, so I give the preferred supplier, Agent B, a call and ask them what their payment terms are. Unsurprisingly their payment terms are 10 days. I ask Agent B whether I could go via them and cut out Agent A. Agent B then tell me that they originally contacted me a few months ago for a PM role with the same client. This role went stale, but the agent at the time who dealt with the PM role left and went to work for Agent A!

Go with Agent B on the basis that you agreed that they could represent you to that client previously. Don't tell agent A anything. If the tulip hits the fan then let the agents fight it out between them. Don't get involved in this second tier agent bulltulip.

[northernladuk]

Why is 30 days a show stopper?

Inconvenience aside the longer they hold your money before paying the greater the amount of money you will lose if they go under in that time. If there are any disputes or anything it means a greater value is at stake. It just exposes you to more risk. There have been posts in the past where people have claimed they will not accept 30 days whatever. Have never quite understood why personally as I wouldn't throw away a contract over it but it can be a pain in the ass.

[JamJarST]

Unfortunately I am broke, I have spent the war chest supply! The role is 300 miles away, so the travel and living expenses will make it impossible to survive.

Even waiting 2 weeks for payment will be a real problem for me.

I know how you feel, my contract is 500 miles away. I made the move from permie to contract and had about 5 months war chest saved, the cost of coming here while I waited for the 35 days (30 days payment terms plus the first week of work) nearly wiped that out.