Reply to: Joining an umbrella company.

[Newby]

Thanks Darren, is my definition of a composite right, if you say yes you can keep your fiver!!!

[Xtrain]

...and another thing...

If you think PAYE umbrellas are the safe then I would say two words to you "Prosperity4" and "expenses".

It won't be long before the IR come after this gravy train imo. If you look at the amount of turnover these companies have and the amount of "tax free" expenses that have been claimed then it won't be long before they are targets.

[malvolio]

AIUI A composite company is one company with many shareholders - Brookson being the biggest example. min wage and dividend payments but done through one company with many shareholders. Gabem and FT assign one limited company per individual. not multiple shareholders.

Is that right?

May well be, I've never bothered to ind out. However, in Gordie world, if you run a one-man Limited Company of some form other than one with one or two members and not depedent on a bigger company to do the management, then you are clearly doing so to save tax and should be smacked. Plus, of course, there's around 100k people who fit that description, a far easier target than a random trawl through SA forms and Companies House looking for volunteers.

It' a measure of how smart Dim Prawn really is that she had to invent IR35 and wait five years before hitting the readily identifiable tax avoiders.

[tim123]

AIUI A composite company is one company with many shareholders - Brookson being the biggest example. min wage and dividend payments but done through one company with many shareholders. Gabem and FT assign one limited company per individual. not multiple shareholders.

Is that right?

They must have refined their model. I am sure that they used to be a composite.

TBH their charges look low for what they do. A fully managed ltd for no more than some accountants charge. Other Fully Managed Ltds that I've heard of charge two to three times as much.

tim

[Darren@UptonAccountants]

(darren can I have some kick back please!!)

Sure Newby, here's a virtual fiver!

[Newby]

AIUI A composite company is one company with many shareholders - Brookson being the biggest example. min wage and dividend payments but done through one company with many shareholders. Gabem and FT assign one limited company per individual. not multiple shareholders.

Is that right?

[tim123]

After having to google your last comment to understand it Tim, Gabem and Filetravel do not run composite companies. They run a limited company for each individual even if it is an umbrella service that you want.

AIUI Gordo was just after composites and umbrellas and these boys are different?

Who cares, our man is probably with Giant by now!

That is what a composite company is (or was before managed service companies came along). It is a single company which manages a number of individuals paying them each with their own share of the dividends via a different class of share.

What is it that you think is a composite company.

tim

[Mordac]

Vectra, you must be on a referral gig with that kind of recommendation! Isnt gordo announcing to the whole country that he is going to snuff brollys out enough? Those I mentioned assess your IR35 status and give you a product to suit, hence you might not have been down 2K!!!! But I agree going it alone is probably worth considering. (darren can I have some kick back please!!)

No. He's (possibly) going after composites, which aren't the same thing. An umbrella (such as Parasol) who simply does your PAYE (and charge you an arm and a leg for the privilege imho) has nothing to fear. After all, that is exactly how Brownstuff wants us all to work.

[Newby]

After having to google your last comment to understand it Tim, Gabem and Filetravel do not run composite companies. They run a limited company for each individual even if it is an umbrella service that you want.

AIUI Gordo was just after composites and umbrellas and these boys are different?

Who cares, our man is probably with Giant by now!

[tim123]

Sorry to be so rude, but did you read the budget. The onset of the government attacking composite and umbrella companies is upon us. Why dont you check out one of the personal service companies like Gabem, Paystream or Filetravel (cheaper than Giant by a mile). I have worked with two of them(cannot remember why I changed) In my mind working as the sole individual in a company is going to hold much firmer than being one of many in a typical brolly. I personally dont see why if brollies exist, why agents aren't allowed to let a contractor offset his expenses against his taxable earnings directly with the agent. After all a brolly is only PAYE on speed.

AIUI Filetravel are the type of Composite that GB is looking at.

HTH

tim

[VectraMan]

Vectra, you must be on a referral gig with that kind of recommendation! Isnt gordo announcing to the whole country that he is going to snuff brollys out enough? Those I mentioned assess your IR35 status and give you a product to suit, hence you might not have been down 2K!!!! But I agree going it alone is probably worth considering. (darren can I have some kick back please!!)

Yeah you'd think so. They did have a "recommend a friend" scheme, but now I've left I probably don't qualify. It's only the composite types they'll crack down on as they pretty much only exist to help you avoid tax with dividends, whereas with the likes of Parasol you pay all your income tax and NI so there's no avoidance to worry anyone. I'd only go for one or the other; i.e. a) PAYE so you pay all your tax and NI, or b) you have a ltd. and have total control of the situation. Anything inbetween strikes me as a bad idea.

[Newby]

Vectra, you must be on a referral gig with that kind of recommendation! Isnt gordo announcing to the whole country that he is going to snuff brollys out enough? Those I mentioned assess your IR35 status and give you a product to suit, hence you might not have been down 2K!!!! But I agree going it alone is probably worth considering. (darren can I have some kick back please!!)

[VectraMan]

Parasol is £20pw, £60 per month (depending on if you're paid weekly or monthly). All you need to do with them is go to their website at the end of every week/month and put in your hours and an expense claim at the end of the month. Unfortunately you now need to post them petrol receipts if you claim for mileage, and accomodation receipts if it's over a certain amount.

They won't do your personal tax return, just like any other employer wouldn't do your personal tax return, but they do give you all the information in emails to make it pretty easy.

I'd highly recommend them, I thought their service was excellent, a very painless way to go contracting, and it's all honest and up front unlike the dodgy composite type schemes.

Having said all that, I was with Parasol for 4 months and as I'm pretty sure my contract would have stood up to IR35 I've probably cost myself about £2K in tax by not having my own limited. At the time I was wet behind the ears and wanted the least hassle option, but now I regret it.

[Newby]

budget woe

Sorry to be so rude, but did you read the budget. The onset of the government attacking composite and umbrella companies is upon us. Why dont you check out one of the personal service companies like Gabem, Paystream or Filetravel (cheaper than Giant by a mile). I have worked with two of them(cannot remember why I changed) In my mind working as the sole individual in a company is going to hold much firmer than being one of many in a typical brolly. I personally dont see why if brollies exist, why agents aren't allowed to let a contractor offset his expenses against his taxable earnings directly with the agent. After all a brolly is only PAYE on speed.

[Xtrain]

What do they do?

Is there anything that parasol leave for me to do?

End of year tax return? I am pretty clueless here?

Why don't you just ask them!!!