Selling myself short

[DavidCopperfield]

I see you've been given the usual warm reception by the regulars here! Since no one else has said it, I will: Welcome, DavidCopperfield.

Thanks! After reading this forum for a while, I've expected this kind of "warm reception"

Your English appears to be of a high standard (written at least!) so I don't think that's going to be a problem. As for being from another country, a lot of people see this as a positive thing because visitors to London come here with a work hard, play hard attitude which suits the contracting mindset. You may find a bit of underlying xenophobia from people but I've found that this is more borne of ignorance than anything else. Once people get to know you, you'll be fine.

I feel pretty ok with my "English", although I've to admit that quite rarely I'm a little bit troubled by fast speaking British people with weird (to me) "accent" (being raised by American movies I had not been expecting that - I should have been watching more 'Allo 'Allo I guess ).

How much you're worth is almost impossible to guess but with 5 years experience, you should probably be looking for 350+ in London though as a new boy in town there will be agencies that try to get you to take low rates (so they can keep more for themselves). The L400-500 day rates are certainly achievable though you have to know what you are doing and perhaps have a bit more experience. If you are 21 years old and straight out of University then you aren't going to get that. After a few years contracting in London you could easily hit that target.

I'm 28 actually, and I have few "battle scars" on me ;-)
In this case I think that's the level that client is able to pay (...), well it's not banking and other "gold mining" business (yeah but on the other hand why should I care right ?). Contract seems interesting and team seems cool.
But you are very right about headhunters - at first they tried to give me even lower rate. Later they raised it. And finally they called me and offered - try 2 months, if not happy we let you go.

If you want a job tomorrow then you're going to get L250, if you are willing to shop around a bit (and it may take weeks or months) to find the "right" job that fits your experience and specialist skills then you can get more. Also, you will look like a new boy in town so they may try to take advantage of that if they can. A compromise is to take a (relatively) low paid job on 7 days notice. The client and agency will know that this means you will dump it and take a better one if one comes up and it keeps them honest. If they say "but we don't want you to leave half way through" so you answer, "why would I leave if you are paying me the fair market rate?". The suggestion to them is that if they pay you a decent rate then you won't be tempted to quit the contract half way through - they will know this anyway.

Hmm with this 2 months trial I think it's a good option then. Who knows, I might fall in love with not the prettiest lady right ? ;-)

Also make sure the client knows how much the agency are paying you so you don't get ripped off by the agency charging L500/day and giving you L250.

Good luck!

And about "opting out", that's what they want me to do, thanks for warning!

Thanks a lot Wanderer! Your answer really helped me :-)

[NotAllThere]

...Also make sure the client knows how much the agency are paying you so you don't get ripped off by the agency charging £500/day and giving you £250. ...

This is the normal behaviour of many agents when they have someone new to contracting. They'll give all sorts of reasons to justify the low rate, but the fact is, they're skimming a huge margin off.

What you accept though is entirely up to you. It's a risk. If you're getting £250 a day, that's £250 a day more than nothing. If the usual rates are in the +£400 mark, then either the agency is lying, or the client is really crap. Either way, unless you're desperate for the work - walk away.

[Wanderer]

Oh, and when they ask you if you want to "opt out" of the Agency regulations, tell them NO THANK YOU! They cannot legally force you to do this and if you do then it signs away your legal rights. If you have already been tricked into opting out then tell them (in writing) that you want to withdraw the opt out as a condition of accepting the contract.

[Wanderer]

I'm new here (been observing for some time though), and I've some doubts about my contract and none really to share about it - so here I go. Long story short, I'm not a Londoner, just arrived three days ago, I will be gone though in 6 months or so, so please don't consider me stealing yours jobs (just one ;-)
I'm in C# / ASP.NET / SQL SERVER type of jobs (but I've done a lot of WPF as well), almost 5 years of experience (but not from English speaking country if it matters, but been doing contracting as well), staying on a bleeding edge of technology all the time, I think I'm pretty good in my stuff.
Since my CV showed up on cwjobs I've been "attacked" by different headhunters, and I have had one interview today. It went pretty well, they want me, and they want my decision ASAP, but I have some doubts.

I see you've been given the usual warm reception by the regulars here! Since no one else has said it, I will: Welcome, DavidCopperfield.

Your English appears to be of a high standard (written at least!) so I don't think that's going to be a problem. As for being from another country, a lot of people see this as a positive thing because visitors to London come here with a work hard, play hard attitude which suits the contracting mindset. You may find a bit of underlying xenophobia from people but I've found that this is more borne of ignorance than anything else. Once people get to know you, you'll be fine.

How much you're worth is almost impossible to guess but with 5 years experience, you should probably be looking for 350+ in London though as a new boy in town there will be agencies that try to get you to take low rates (so they can keep more for themselves). The £400-500 day rates are certainly achievable though you have to know what you are doing and perhaps have a bit more experience. If you are 21 years old and straight out of University then you aren't going to get that. After a few years contracting in London you could easily hit that target.

If you want a job tomorrow then you're going to get £250, if you are willing to shop around a bit (and it may take weeks or months) to find the "right" job that fits your experience and specialist skills then you can get more. Also, you will look like a new boy in town so they may try to take advantage of that if they can. A compromise is to take a (relatively) low paid job on 7 days notice. The client and agency will know that this means you will dump it and take a better one if one comes up and it keeps them honest. If they say "but we don't want you to leave half way through" so you answer, "why would I leave if you are paying me the fair market rate?". The suggestion to them is that if they pay you a decent rate then you won't be tempted to quit the contract half way through - they will know this anyway.

Also make sure the client knows how much the agency are paying you so you don't get ripped off by the agency charging £500/day and giving you £250.

Good luck!

[Scrag Meister]

£250pd for C# in London!!

If you are as good as you say then I would have thought £450-£600.

[fullyautomatix]

Hi everybody

I'm new here (been observing for some time though), and I've some doubts about my contract and none really to share about it - so here I go. Long story short, I'm not a Londoner, just arrived three days ago, I will be gone though in 6 months or so, so please don't consider me stealing yours jobs (just one ;-)
I'm in C# / ASP.NET / SQL SERVER type of jobs (but I've done a lot of WPF as well), almost 5 years of experience (but not from English speaking country if it matters, but been doing contracting as well), staying on a bleeding edge of technology all the time, I think I'm pretty good in my stuff.
Since my CV showed up on cwjobs I've been "attacked" by different headhunters, and I have had one interview today. It went pretty well, they want me, and they want my decision ASAP, but I have some doubts. First of all it's not so super well paid (but maybe I'm biased by high money offers that I can see on cwjobs - is range 400-500GBP / day easily achievable ? - especially by me (no UK work experience) ?), ok let's not to be afraid of numbers - 250GBP / day. Another doubt is - I think I should not just merry first women I met (well divorce in 6 months - but still ;-)
My question is, should I just take first offer I got, especially with my situation, or should I be picky and act as a pretty girl ? ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts!

Well, my heart bleeds for you. The market determines the rate and it depends on your experience and skillset. If a client has offered 250 GBP, then that is what the market is prepared to pay.

Its a bit like you trying to sell your 1 bedroom bedsit for a million because you read in the papers that SASGuru sold his house for a million.

[Clippy]

Rest assured, the streets of London are paved with gold and beautiful women just waiting for all and merry from overseas.

Fill yer boots...

[stek]

'Headhunter' equals 'agent pimping you around' in this case I'm afraid...

[pmeswani]

pretty girls are overrated. marry a fat one and get her to slim down

Only problem with that is the woman becomes slim, she may become pretty, and end up leaving him for a better model.

[pmeswani]

Don't know about anyone else, but haven't got a clue what you are asking ? So will take a guess and say 'yes'...

I inclined to agree. But if I were to guess what the OP said, I would guess he is new to the UK Contract Market and wants to know if (s)he should take a tulip rate. To which i would say yes. Don't know what he was talking about beyond that.

[monobrow]

Hi everybody

I'm new here (been observing for some time though), and I've some doubts about my contract and none really to share about it - so here I go. Long story short, I'm not a Londoner, just arrived three days ago, I will be gone though in 6 months or so, so please don't consider me stealing yours jobs (just one ;-)
I'm in C# / ASP.NET / SQL SERVER type of jobs (but I've done a lot of WPF as well), almost 5 years of experience (but not from English speaking country if it matters, but been doing contracting as well), staying on a bleeding edge of technology all the time, I think I'm pretty good in my stuff.
Since my CV showed up on cwjobs I've been "attacked" by different headhunters, and I have had one interview today. It went pretty well, they want me, and they want my decision ASAP, but I have some doubts. First of all it's not so super well paid (but maybe I'm biased by high money offers that I can see on cwjobs - is range 400-500GBP / day easily achievable ? - especially by me (no UK work experience) ?), ok let's not to be afraid of numbers - 250GBP / day. Another doubt is - I think I should not just merry first women I met (well divorce in 6 months - but still ;-)
My question is, should I just take first offer I got, especially with my situation, or should I be picky and act as a pretty girl ? ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts!

pretty girls are overrated. marry a fat one and get her to slim down

[kaiser78]

Don't know about anyone else, but haven't got a clue what you are asking ? So will take a guess and say 'yes'...

[DavidCopperfield]

Hi everybody

I'm new here (been observing for some time though), and I've some doubts about my contract and none really to share about it - so here I go. Long story short, I'm not a Londoner, just arrived three days ago, I will be gone though in 6 months or so, so please don't consider me stealing yours jobs (just one ;-)
I'm in C# / ASP.NET / SQL SERVER type of jobs (but I've done a lot of WPF as well), almost 5 years of experience (but not from English speaking country if it matters, but been doing contracting as well), staying on a bleeding edge of technology all the time, I think I'm pretty good in my stuff.
Since my CV showed up on cwjobs I've been "attacked" by different headhunters, and I have had one interview today. It went pretty well, they want me, and they want my decision ASAP, but I have some doubts. First of all it's not so super well paid (but maybe I'm biased by high money offers that I can see on cwjobs - is range 400-500GBP / day easily achievable ? - especially by me (no UK work experience) ?), ok let's not to be afraid of numbers - 250GBP / day. Another doubt is - I think I should not just merry first women I met (well divorce in 6 months - but still ;-)
My question is, should I just take first offer I got, especially with my situation, or should I be picky and act as a pretty girl ? ;-)
Thanks for your thoughts!