IR35: log of contract changes?

[SueEllen]

Maybe we could start a list of agencies who have an IR35 compliant contract?

You could but then that's not the only clause in a contract that can screw you - so the agency can have an IR35 compliant contract but add a few other clauses that screw you up.

[v8gaz]

Maybe we could start a list of agencies who have an IR35 compliant contract?

That's fine until the client's lawyers feel the need to justify their existence and impose some clause or other that outs you at risk, and the agency includes it in the lower contract. In which case you don't have the same contract as everyone else at that agency, and you aren't aware of the fact.

[Wanderer]

Maybe we could start a list of agencies who have an IR35 compliant contract?

[mudskipper]

With reference to 1-6 of NorthernLad's points:

The PGC (and others) publish contract templates. What mtbw is suggesting isn't that different.

[meanttobeworking]

All fair points Apart from #7

[northernladuk]

I am not so sure about this one for a number of reasons.

1. You need to understand IR35. You also need to understand your contract. You need to understand your position as a contractor + Ltd Director. When you understand all these you will be able to make the changes yourself and word them to suit you in the best way. (that sounds like a load of pompus crap but you get the jist)

2. Copy and pasting text in to a contract doesn't mean you are out of IR35. It means you have a piece of paper that is worded outside. You need to think about your working conditions and make you contract fit those. If your working conditions are inside IR35 making your contract look like you are out isn't going to help you when you get investigated. You are just kidding yourself.

3. A contract review is super cheap compared to you cocking up your copying and pasting and come out with a load of tosh that doesn't cover you for anything. There are somethings worth cutting back and saving money on. I don't see a contract review as one of those. QDOS give 3 (or something) a year with their insurance anyway so you are hardly talking a small fortune to make absolutely sure you are covered.

4. There is more than enough information on the salient points of IR35 on this board that can be found with minimal effort that are more trust worthy than us putting random stuff up.

5. Partly covered in 1. I think but you need to understand your contract. Will you understand it with random copy/pasted text in it?

6. If you do get investigated they will go over it with a fine tooth comb... a very fine toothed comb. From what I remember some of the cases (or contract cases in general) come down to very minute wording differences and perception of these. Your whole contract needs to be water tight, not just some paragraphs about MMO or substitution.

7. Run out of ideas so just putting this in for the sake of it.

I see the reasoning behind the suggestion but just doesn't feel right to give easy answers to complex situations particularly when it is there to protect you. I say that now after being on here awhile and reading alot about IR35. Wether a newbie would disagree and want to see it I dunno.

[meanttobeworking]

As mentioned by a number of other posters, there are a lot of people out there making money out of the fear of IR35, especially from chargable contract reviews, etc. Would it be useful to maintain a list of before/after amendments made to contracts on here, for the greater good? I can't help but feel there's a lot of work being done (and charged for) over and over again, and maybe if we shared this information we'd all save money on contract reviews.

I've only had one contract, and didn't get it reviewed because I was happy it was outside of IR35. It's likely to last a year, so I'm not doing this in a hugely self-serving way (the most I could hope to save is the cost of a contract review in another 12 months). I just thought it might help anyone not too familiar with the subject to learn from some real life examples.