Reply to: Need some advice on getting into contracts - which certification

[antekm]

Don't worry Greg. the more polish come to UK, the less chance that those jobs will come to Poland

[Greg Longshaft]

I think you should do the cert, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose apart from some money, it will give you direction and confidence.

You will need every weapon you can get to beat the competition which is us...hell what am i saying, stay in poland, this country is cold, dark and full of ugly women.

[antekm]

ok, thanks to everyone for feedback. I'm aware it will not be easy, although I hope that my experience will be valued at least a little bit, as graduate premie pay would be much less (esp. considering the difference of costs of living) than I can get in Poland.

I think I will do this j2ee architect cert (as I have some time now) and maybe watch a lot of english movies , and then come to London and see what happens.

[Xil3]

Some of the people are being a bit harsh on here.

In all honesty, just take the certs - they'll definitely help you get your foot in the door.

Your best bet is to start applying (after attaining the certs) before you get to England, and as soon as you land an interview, jump on a flight and come over.

[nomadd]

Well, as I wrote, I'm coming to UK next year, but I have some time before. So I'm looking for something I can do now (and I cannot do much more than learning for some certification), and still I didn't get an answer (ok, I'm dropping this idea of SOA cert).

My main concern is - how is polish experience treated in UK? I was thinking of making cert to get some kind of additional prove for it. But I have no idea if this is the correct thinking or not..

If you've got time on your hands, then sure, do the Certs. I did all the Java ones. It's certainly been a taking point in some interviews, and overall I'd say it's done more than enough good to justify the minimal outlay (just the cost of the exams and a book.)

But, as all the other posters are pointing out to you, the Certs mean nothing without very good work experience and very good - English - communication skills. This "time before" you talk about? Just spend it building up more Banking experience. That'll do you more good than all the qualifications in the world..

Just my two cents.

[SueEllen]

Well, as I wrote, I'm coming to UK next year, but I have some time before. So I'm looking for something I can do now (and I cannot do much more than learning for some certification), and still I didn't get an answer (ok, I'm dropping this idea of SOA cert).

My main concern is - how is polish experience treated in UK? I was thinking of making cert to get some kind of additional prove for it. But I have no idea if this is the correct thinking or not..

I've answered your questions and so has NorthernladUk.

On a more serious note if you cannot understand my answers then expect to get a job that is paid the same as a graduate position in the UK regardless of how much experience you have.

Having worked in companies who have employed one/two Eastern Europeans as permies, the ones who weren't and aren't on poor pay have either:
1. Spent some of their time working in the UK as students during the holidays.
2. Spent some of their time watching English comedy programs

Whether they had relevant professional certificates or not wasn't really taken into consideration by the companies as they were only interested in verbal English language ability, degree and experience plus normal things like whether they would get on with people in the office.

[northernladuk]

As mention before. Certs mean nothing unless you have valid experience to back it up. As a contractor you are expected to be an expert in your field to get any work. Unless you can come and demonstrate you have exactly what the client wants and you can start delivering value immediately or pretty darn quickly they will not even look at you. There are many very experienced contractors here on the bench with 10+ years in certain industries and many previous contracts under their belt to back it up. You are up against this compeition.

Even trying as a permie (you don't mention what your plans are in the UK, permanent or just for work but then I don't have a clue about visa requirements, work permits etc etc) you are going to struggle unless you can show some value. Your certs maybe of use here as you can go for a lower rate with the idea of training up.

I really don't have a clue how the whole EU thing works but I would suspect any kind of banking or security requirements will be arduous for your clients. They can't disciminate you on this I am sure but I can't think it is going to help at all. I again presume it is possible to do a security/credit check on people from other EU countries?

As to the general consensus of Polish people I can't really comment without being accused of being racist but regardless of where you are from you will need good English. A very heavy accent will hamper your chances of getting a job. I should know, I have a Yorkshire accent and I can't get a job south of Birmingham to save my life!!!

In a nutshell it is gonna be tough but possible. Be prepared for the worst.

EDIT : I guess one thing to do would be to start scanning the jobsites now for an idea of what is out there, how many roles you can do (can meaning can now not can possibly do with some training) and start putting your CV out to see what feedback you get.

[antekm]

Well, as I wrote, I'm coming to UK next year, but I have some time before. So I'm looking for something I can do now (and I cannot do much more than learning for some certification), and still I didn't get an answer (ok, I'm dropping this idea of SOA cert).

My main concern is - how is polish experience treated in UK? I was thinking of making cert to get some kind of additional prove for it. But I have no idea if this is the correct thinking or not..

[northernladuk]

I think someone is looking for the answer they want to hear rather than being open to advice and acting on it even though it isn't what they wanted.

[antekm]

So to summarize, is there anything sensible that I can do before coming to UK looking for some contract? Should I do this J2EE Architect?
Can I assume I will be able to find some contract, or should I rather work first for some time as premie?

[SueEllen]

And what about getting certification, working as permie for some time to catch up with experience, and then going into cotracts (as SOA specialist)? Is it worth the effort?

And what is the value of j2ee architect certification?

Certifications are used by consultancies to sell you to their end client, or as a way to keep permie staff thinking that they are learning something useful.

I would personally get a job then get your employer to pay for any "training" that you need.

While lots of employers don't like to send people on IT training courses they tend to be happier to buy a few books and pay for an exam. You will still have to do a your yearly performance review/career development plan/"whatever they are called" to get this.

[antekm]

And what about getting certification, working as permie for some time to catch up with experience, and then going into cotracts (as SOA specialist)? Is it worth the effort?

And what is the value of j2ee architect certification?

[northernladuk]

Well, to clarify, my plan is to move to UK before applying for anything, so this shouldn't be problem.

And what do you think about SOA in general? Is it worth trying to go in this direction? Or better do this j2ee architect and see what happens?

As has already been mentioned. If you do not have experience in a certainly technology you will not get work in that area regardless of your certification. As a contractor you are expected to be an expert in your field <cough> and can hit the ground running to bring value to your client.

[antekm]

Well, to clarify, my plan is to move to UK before applying for anything, so this shouldn't be problem.

And what do you think about SOA in general? Is it worth trying to go in this direction? Or better do this j2ee architect and see what happens?

[northernladuk]

So get a UK SIM card and don't tell them - but be well acquainted with the flight schedules for an interview tomorrow.

But remember to get a role with a bank in the UK you will have to go through a number of checks probably including a CRB and a background/credit check so will have to be open and honest about everything for this.