Reply to: Contract offered

[privateeye]

how do we ensure roles are live? what obligation have agencies got?

One big mistake that I've seen agencies make is get too excited when they have a lead for a role and go through the whole process of filling it before its live - it is best to at least check with the financial people/signatories in the client to see if your contact has the correct authority. Lots of HR people are complaining at the moment that departments are just going off on their own tangents regarding recruitment going through the advertising etc and then presenting a purchase order to finance who then veto it. Its not fair on agent or contractor.

I had it once when a recruiter called me to see if I needed anyone and I said we were waiting clearance from finance - it was on jobserve almost immediately and CVS were coming in thick and fast. We hadn't even made a decision yet.

[privateeye]

signed that contract

Well Done privateeye!

the key difference between your case and the other chaps being...

a) you appear to have actually started the work that was required
b) you had a signed contract


If either of the two above dont apply then I reckon life is just too short to make a fuss.

I invited a plumber around to my house a few months ago because we were thinking of upgrading the bathroom to make a sale easier - I basically told him that he virtually had the job but he needed to send a written quote ("Statement of Works") which I could then formally accept in writing.

In the time it took for him to issue written quote paperwork (i.e. weeks) I decided it wasnt economically feasible to have the work done so I called him to let him know the reason. He was not bothered either way.

Needless the say I wont be expecting the plumber to invoice me for his time and petrol to give me the quote....he will just put it down to experience and as a "cost of doing business"

I think it all comes down to what expense you have incurred - if you have turned something down to do a signed contract then I think it could be persued - all depends how much you lost/could lose that makes it worth it or not. In the plumbers case he probably just brought forward his other customers. In a contractors case this is less likely due to the process of getting a new contract. People just shouldn't lie in the first place then this situation would not arise - if you can't do the time then don't do the crime.

I had offers of other work so the agent inflated the contract terms to make his choice more appealing - that just ain't on when I had turned down other honest offers.

[eternalnomad]

signed that contract

Well Done privateeye!

the key difference between your case and the other chaps being...

a) you appear to have actually started the work that was required
b) you had a signed contract


If either of the two above dont apply then I reckon life is just too short to make a fuss.

I invited a plumber around to my house a few months ago because we were thinking of upgrading the bathroom to make a sale easier - I basically told him that he virtually had the job but he needed to send a written quote ("Statement of Works") which I could then formally accept in writing.

In the time it took for him to issue written quote paperwork (i.e. weeks) I decided it wasnt economically feasible to have the work done so I called him to let him know the reason. He was not bothered either way.

Needless the say I wont be expecting the plumber to invoice me for his time and petrol to give me the quote....he will just put it down to experience and as a "cost of doing business"

[IT contract agent]

An agency has a obligation legally to ensure that roles are live, otherwise they incur costs for the contractor that are illegitimate. Therefore, this gives rise to a bona fide claim for expenses.

how do we ensure roles are live? what obligation have agencies got?

[ratewhore]

Nice one

[privateeye]

that would be interesting to see followed through. Anyone been successful in this?

I've forced an agency into paying for a contract that was not quite live. The contract was live in the fact it was for one month only but the agency said it was for 6 months and signed that contract - then immediately gave 1 months notice. Pointed them towards the Thefts Act section on Obtaining Services by Deception. Their solicitors recomended that I was paid any loss which they did - they were not too happy that I obtained the client contract which proved the contract was only ever for 1 month and that I was lied to.

If you can prove you were deliberately misled then you have a good case for criminal charges. The trouble is proving it of course.

[ratewhore]

that would be interesting to see followed through. Anyone been successful in this?

[Denny]

This is whats known to a real business as a "cost of sale" and happens to companies up and down the land every day of the week.

Many times I have been told "Its in the bag" and even had emails with similar positive sounding news as that you received but this is not the same as a formal offer of a contract.

Yes, its very frustrating but just put it down to experience.

If I were an agency and received an invoice for "wasted time" on a contract that was never agreed formally (i.e. signed) then I would file it under "B" for bin (or bollox)

An agency has a obligation legally to ensure that roles are live, otherwise they incur costs for the contractor that are illegitimate. Therefore, this gives rise to a bona fide claim for expenses.

[BlasterBates]

No ...tough one.

Doesn't often happen, but until the contract is on paper, it would be difficult to get anything out of them. The trouble is you haven't got any evidence of a notice period, so they may just say there wasn't one, which unfortunately is perfectly legit.

[expat]

This is whats known to a real business as a "cost of sale" and happens to companies up and down the land every day of the week.

Yes, it's one of the costs of doing business. The rate you bill covers ths happening from time to time. If it doesn't, youre not billing enough. If they won't pay a rate that is enough to cover the costs of doing business, they don't want a contractor, they want a cheap disposable employee. You can if you like.

[ratewhore]

sh1t happens. chalk it up and move on. This happens all the time so don't worry about it. Look on the bright side - you're availability is good right now

[eternalnomad]

This is whats known to a real business as a "cost of sale" and happens to companies up and down the land every day of the week.

Many times I have been told "Its in the bag" and even had emails with similar positive sounding news as that you received but this is not the same as a formal offer of a contract.

Yes, its very frustrating but just put it down to experience.

If I were an agency and received an invoice for "wasted time" on a contract that was never agreed formally (i.e. signed) then I would file it under "B" for bin (or bollox)

[Denny]

I would be angry too.

Employment businesses should take more care to ensure that roles are live and 'in the bag' as real opportunities before advertising and sourcing contractors. That means ensuring that the project has funded your role. Sometimes that's not always possible if projects are canned very quickly but I bet that most roles that end like this are speculative deliberately when the agency is first contacted to advertise or source candidates via telephone call.

I would work out how much time you spent researching and preparing for the interview, how much time you spent travelling to and from it, the interview time itself and submit an invoice for those hours based on the pro-rate daily rate you agreed with your agency. Normally, if the role is based locally, this should be around 2-3 hours or half a day.

The very least they should do is pay you for your wasted time. The client should also be prepared to reimburse the agency too.

I've done this a few times, and normally get back my travel expenses at the very least.

[Torran]

Hi can any one help... I was offered a contract by Rullion agency, they said definate job available I have email to prove... but now I have just spoke to them and they say their client as stopped the project, and don't knowwhen it will start again, but I have been turning other offers down... is there anything I can do?
Thx

Looks like its one to put down to experience my friend. Why don't you call round the others that were offering you work. They can only say no

[privateeye]

This is the email I recieved do you think there is a chance or should I just putit down to experience???


Hi Shaun,

Littlewoods are now raising the purchase orders to be signed off by the client.

Just to confirm they would like to offer you a nine month contract commencing on Monday 13th February at a daily rate of £190 per day.

I will be in touch early next week to catch up and discuss further details. In the meantime please can you arrange your Limited Company details/Umbrella details so that when I have the PO number I can get the contract raised.

Kind regards,

I don't think it is that firm an offer the words "would like" are not the same as "have". I think in this instance Rullion acted in good faith but they themselves got stung by the client. Sometimes you find that clients have not cleared things with their own financial controllers. There is also the possibility that Rullion were playing for time as they know the client is slow to process applications and Rullion were afraid of losing you to someone else.

I don't understand Rullion's contract procedure. They offered me a contract before Christmas but the contract did not arrive and another offer came in which more than matched their offer so I signed that as it was guarenteed to be in the bag. They had however signed a contract with the client, the client actually called me to find out why I wasn't on site. In this instance Rullion accepted that they were at fault.

I never accept anything until I've seen the contract and it is signed by the other parties.