Reply to: Urgent - Requirement for Prince 2 training

[ascender]

In terms of practical, useful, day-to-day PM skills, I think PMI's PMP course trounces the Prince2 in every regard.

Having got the Practitioner qualification, it would be a shame to let it lapse so I guess I'll be doing the re-cert in a few years time, although the thought of going through the course/exam cram again doesn't fill me with joy!

How are Microsoft qualifications regarded these days anyway? I remember doing my MCSE about 15 years ago when it was very highly regarded, but the emergence of braindumps in future years seemed to render it pretty much useless in terms of using it as any kind of benchmark of someone's actual skills.

[MarillionFan]

IMHO both Prince II and ITIL qualifications are worth less than the paper they are written on.

Microsoft qualifications can be used to show a practical skillset whereas both Prince and ITIL demonstrate an ability to copy and paste conceptual processes without any practical benefit or intelligence.

[RichardCranium]

maybe do MSP while I'm at it for additional tick boxery.

I've been wondering about MSP for a few years. I don't fancy programme manager roles; it looks like a lot of grief and politics to me. But, in theory, as I often work to a programme manager or programme director, I sort of expect myself to be able to communicate in their language. But it never works like that. I don't think I have ever worked for anyone that has done MSP. So it really seems to be 'box tickery' (I like that).

[TykeMerc]

You're absolutely right of course Mr Cranium, I have had to email a scan of my certificate a couple of times and I don't know how many times my P2R registration has been checked. I probably should re-certify.

I'd reached the same conclusion that a full course run to learn the new manual and do guided test practice would be sensible, it's enough hassle taking the exam once so no point running the risk of twice.

The box tick value is worth the company investment, I'll do it once I have a bench gap and maybe do MSP while I'm at it for additional tick boxery.

[thunderlizard]

3) A bloke wanting to get out of the NHS and set up his own business and wants to treat that as a project

wow, that's thorough. You can take the bloke out of the NHS...

[RichardCranium]

My practitioner expires in early March and I'm in a gig until the end of that month so I'll probably let it lapse. I'm in two minds whether I'll bother to sit the Practitioner exam again.

Mine expired in June last year and as I was in mid-contract I let it lapse until I got round to it again in December.

The instructor said I was the first re-registration she has had attend for many, many months. It seems not many people bother.

Amongst the PMs I've worked with, they've all said they'd let it lapse.

Of course since clients usually have no idea what's involved and see it as a critical tick in the box I'll probably force myself to book a quick hothouse course.

Although the re-registration exam is short, it ain't easy. I would have failed if I had just tried re-reading the manual. Primarily, because the buggers changed it in 2009.

I ended up doing a full 5 day Practitioner course rather than a 2 day re-registration course. That was because the date & location & price were all good. I was glad I did the 5 days.

I say "full 5 days" but it's not. There is no training on Weds afternoon when the Foundation exam is sat. There is no training on the Friday because the Practitioner course is in the morning. And 2 hours of Monday morning is the creeping death introductions. So a "full 5 days" is more like 3 days anyway.

The format of the Practitioner exam has changed: it has gone from essay-style (which Bobs were failing) to bastard multiple choice. Bastard because it is NOT "choose A, B, C or D" it is "choose 2 of A, B, C, D and E and get both of them right". Random answering will only get you about 5% of the answers right. There are also other horrid question types.

In the course they introduce you to the types of questions and how to answer them plus get to do some example exam papers. Time is tight in the exam; this practice alone was worth paying for.

Sadly, you don't get to do the Foundation Exam when doing the re-registration. When I did my Practitioner, myself and the other contractor both only got one answer wrong in the multi-choice which upset the permies in a rather delicious way.

Incidentally, on the course I attended there was:
1) A Nigerian lawyer who was retraining herself at her own expense.
2) Someone from the meedja who wanted to learn proper project management so she could work in the real world; she paid herself.
3) A bloke wanting to get out of the NHS and set up his own business and wants to treat that as a project; he paid for himself.
4) A bloke who has been told he will be redundant by March; he paid for himself.
5) Me. And because I'm currently with a brolly, I paid myself too.

The trainer said in her experience it is now normal for people to pay for their own PRINCE2 training.

I'll probably force myself get the exam done for another 5 years of box tickery.

I have had 3 clients check. Two wanted to see the actual certificate and one of those took a photocopy. For a government client, all CVs had to have the P2R number submitted with them. So a live practitioner qualification was a gateway to 3 gigs in 5 years.

[TykeMerc]

Cheers - I was looking for something even quicker, but I have enough PM experience that I have decided to see if the client has enough sense not to be put off by a lack of a 50% pass mark attained in a noddy multiple guess exam.

I hope you're not belittling the hugely valuable professional qualification I slaved to obtain 5 years ago!!!

And back on planet real, as others have said the Foundation is a doddle, the Practitioner requires knowledge of the handbook and not practical PM skills although Prince2 does have some handy bits to use as a Framework, which is of course what it aims to be. Anyone going on a Prince2 course hoping to learn the basics or advanced skills of project management is going to be sadly disappointed.

My practitioner expires in early March and I'm in a gig until the end of that month so I'll probably let it lapse. I'm in two minds whether I'll bother to sit the Practitioner exam again.

Of course since clients usually have no idea what's involved and see it as a critical tick in the box I'll probably force myself to book a quick hothouse course and get the exam done for another 5 years of box tickery.

[Old Greg]

Wot about Friday morning next week?

London Friday, January 14, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 14
Chester Friday, January 28, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 23
Chester Friday, January 28, 2011 12:00:00 PM Foundation 23
York Friday, January 28, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 23
York Friday, January 28, 2011 12:00:00 PM Foundation 23

Cheers - I was looking for something even quicker, but I have enough PM experience that I have decided to see if the client has enough sense not to be put off by a lack of a 50% pass mark attained in a noddy multiple guess exam.

[RichardCranium]

the APMG open exams aren't available that soon.

Wot about Friday morning next week?

London Friday, January 14, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 14
Chester Friday, January 28, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 23
Chester Friday, January 28, 2011 12:00:00 PM Foundation 23
York Friday, January 28, 2011 10:00:00 AM Foundation 23
York Friday, January 28, 2011 12:00:00 PM Foundation 23

[Old Greg]

Edit edit: here: http://www.apmg-international.com/AP...ntre_Exams.asp


Edit: follow the link to the 'public exams' from this page: http://www.prince2.com/prince2-exams.asp

Link:

PRINCE2 Foundation Exam Dates and Locations - ILX Group

Info & trial exams:
Start the PRINCE2 Foundation Exam

PRINCE2 Foundation Exam, PRINCE 2 Foundation Questions, PRINCE2 Past Exams, Hints and Tips - ILX Group

Cheers. ILX no longer offer exam only and the APMG open exams aren't available that soon. Ho hum.

[RichardCranium]

Am in a similar situation to the OP. Just want to sit the Foundation exam. Any ideas for providers who do this and don't charge £300+ just to sit a 1 hour multiple choice?

Edit edit: here: http://www.apmg-international.com/AP...ntre_Exams.asp


Edit: follow the link to the 'public exams' from this page: http://www.prince2.com/prince2-exams.asp

Link:

PRINCE2 Foundation Exam Dates and Locations - ILX Group

Info & trial exams:
Start the PRINCE2 Foundation Exam

PRINCE2 Foundation Exam, PRINCE 2 Foundation Questions, PRINCE2 Past Exams, Hints and Tips - ILX Group

[Old Greg]

Am in a similar situation to the OP. Just want to sit the Foundation exam. Any ideas for providers who do this and don't charge £300+ just to sit a 1 hour multiple choice?

Cheers, OG

[RichardCranium]

I am looking to take on a PRINCE2 crash course.

That's the only kind there is. Well, there's two. The Foundation crash course and the Practitioner crash course.

Being close to festive and new year period it will be hard to find someone running a classroom based course.

Eh? I did a PRINCE2 Practitioner 13th-17th Dec; there were a few running that week in the UK. Google, squire, Google!

However, I won't mind self learning or elearning course that I can go through over the holidays. I have worked in PRINCE2 environments and have got understanding of it as a pre requisite.

What I am looking for is something very interactive, interesting to read (digestible)

Then you'll have to write it.

and something that hasn't just been lifted off the PRINCE2 text book.

But that's what you have to learn to pass.

I'd ring around training companies and see what they have on near you over the next while. You might be surprised at the availability, but remember to haggle.

WHS. 50% off is common if you can fill a seat next Monday.

WHS. I passed both ITIL and Prince Foundations by reading past papers and memorising the answers. It is unbelievable how many times the questions are recycled. I didn't open a single book passing both. That was a year or two ago so not sure if they have changed but it was embarrassing how easy it was.

I can't remember the pass rate either, was it 50% or 60%? How the hell are these courses supposed to be industry standards when you can pass by only knowing roughly half of it. Utterly ridiculous.

I cannot see how anyone in IT development with a year's experience and half a brain cannot scrape through the Foundation first time.

The Practitioner is another matter...

[northernladuk]

Good luck with that. Not meaning to sound sarcastic/unhelpful, but the instructor-led courses seem to consist of you using a highlighter pen to mark up the official text book so you can find stuff quickly in the exam. 5 days to get through the book and sit the two exams gives you very little time to actually learn it as you go.

In a past life I'd done various techy certifications from Cisco and not one course-book close to being as difficult to read/digest as the Prince 2 handbook was. If you really need to get the qualification, I'd ring around training companies and see what they have on near you over the next while. You might be surprised at the availability, but remember to haggle.

I'm also confused as to why the cert has become a kind of expected/minimum qualification for project managers in the UK to have when it actually deals with very little of the traditional project management skills required, but that's a whole other topic.

WHS. I passed both ITIL and Prince Foundations by reading past papers and memorising the answers. It is unbelievable how many times the questions are recycled. I didn't open a single book passing both. That was a year or two ago so not sure if they have changed but it was embarrassing how easy it was.

I can't remember the pass rate either, was it 50% or 60%? How the hell are these courses supposed to be industry standards when you can pass by only knowing roughly half of it. Utterly ridiculous.

[escapeUK]

In a past life I'd done various techy certifications from Cisco and not one course-book close to being as difficult to read/digest as the Prince 2 handbook was..

Its because its boring and meaningless. Imagine a government best practise methodology on how to implement a project, you just imagined Prince2. Is there any wonder all government IT projects fail and cost millions.

I have sat probably 25 Microsoft Exams in my time and worked through a hell of a lot of books, Prince2 is the only one I couldn't make myself read. Well that and ITIL actually.