Reply to: asp.net rates down?

[The Agents View]

I do, and I have a number of other streams on income into my company, that is not my issue - my issue is bulltulip from agents that call me asking for references while only wanting business leads.

I think my point still stands - much easier for you to get business from my references than the other way around.

And I just can't imagine many agents giving me names from their clients as references for them. Sure you say you will on here, but I still find it pretty hard to believe.

I would happily provide those names, but only if there was common ground (ie I needed a reference from you because I have a role for you) - as you can imagine, I have the same challenges - references have a limited shelf life if you abuse them - something I do understand.

I do however have a number of written testimonials from individuals who I've worked with, to overcome the majority of doubts - if they then need further affirmation, then I am happy to provide details of someone to confirm that references are genuine etc.

Unfortunately, there is always an element of trust involved in this process - Something which I know you guys find hard with agents involved.....

[jmo21]

If you think like a Permie, or think of yourself as the only service that your business can provide, then yes, that's true.

If you think of yourself as a business, one of whoms assets is you, but that there are a million other possibilities which could be explored simply by opening dialogue, then actually, you open yourself up to a whole other income stream, and at that point, fair's fair.

Sharpen up guys - this recession is not going to get any shorter by considering yourself the only potential income stream to your limited company!

I do, and I have a number of other streams on income into my company, that is not my issue - my issue is bulltulip from agents that call me asking for references while only wanting business leads.

I think my point still stands - much easier for you to get business from my references than the other way around.

And I just can't imagine many agents giving me names from their clients as references for them. Sure you say you will on here, but I still find it pretty hard to believe.

[d000hg]

Sharpen up guys - this recession is not going to get any shorter by considering yourself the only potential income stream to your limited company!

Maybe if they were proper companies rather than freelancers masquerading as companies to avoid stupid tax laws...

[CheeseSlice]

Sharpen up guys - this recession is not going to get any shorter by considering yourself the only potential income stream to your limited company!

We're still in recession?

[The Agents View]

the rest is fine and pretty interesting, but the above is balls.... you have much more chance to get something from our reference than we have of yours.

If you think like a Permie, or think of yourself as the only service that your business can provide, then yes, that's true.

If you think of yourself as a business, one of whoms assets is you, but that there are a million other possibilities which could be explored simply by opening dialogue, then actually, you open yourself up to a whole other income stream, and at that point, fair's fair.

Sharpen up guys - this recession is not going to get any shorter by considering yourself the only potential income stream to your limited company!

[jmo21]

All of the above said, you've missed the point - any agent who wants a reference, should be happy to provide you a reference on his or her services - fair's fair - they might get business from your contact, you might get business from theirs.

the rest is fine and pretty interesting, but the above is balls.... you have much more chance to get something from our reference than we have of yours.

[jmo21]

I've never had a problem with HR references when going through an agent, never.

Well, I stand corrected!

[The Agents View]

Ok, I'll bite.....

Most big companies will not tell you anything negative about a ex-employee/contractor, company rules are usually in place, so that company is protected from being sued.

How do TAV and the other agents on here answer that?

Is your experience different to mine in that respect? Do you hope to get the inside track on a call with someone from client co? ie. off the record

Right. well there's a few ways around this. Firstly, you don't talk about the contractor, you talk about their limited company - there's generally nothing stopping a manager reviewing one of his suppliers honestly.

Secondly, is the obvious "off the record" conversation.

Third is to get a simple yes/no response to the question of whether they'd employ that company again in the right circumstances.


What I would say is that there is two parts to a reference - the first one being date checking, and looking for smells which resemble those of the droppings of a bovine creature, and the second being a review of outcomes and deliveries - The number of people who have laid claim to projects which they were supporting, not running, is incredible - I use it almost as a secondary qualification process.

All of the above said, you've missed the point - any agent who wants a reference, should be happy to provide you a reference on his or her services - fair's fair - they might get business from your contact, you might get business from theirs.

[GillsMan]

No tulip!!

I know that, that's the part of the reference process I don't mind - this can be easily found by contacting HR of the companies. Would an agent accept Jane Doe from HR as a reference?? I think not.

I've never had a problem with HR references when going through an agent, never.

[jmo21]

The reference isn't just to find out if you were good/bad
it's also to verify the information on your CV, make sure you weren't bulltulipting your role, length of contract or even the fact that you were there!

No tulip!!

I know that, that's the part of the reference process I don't mind - this can be easily found by contacting HR of the companies. Would an agent accept Jane Doe from HR as a reference?? I think not.

[Spacecadet]

Ok, I'll bite.....

Most big companies will not tell you anything negative about a ex-employee/contractor, company rules are usually in place, so that company is protected from being sued.

How do TAV and the other agents on here answer that?

Is your experience different to mine in that respect? Do you hope to get the inside track on a call with someone from client co? ie. off the record

The reference isn't just to find out if you were good/bad
it's also to verify the information on your CV, make sure you weren't bulltulipting your role, length of contract or even the fact that you were there!

[jmo21]

I keep trying, but people don't listen to me!

GET REFERENCES ON YOUR AGENT! Even if they're LinkedIn references, they should all give you a good idea - ideally you'd want to speak to a candidate who has been through the process with them to drill.

I would happily provide references to anyone who asked me for them - If I want them from you, it's not that much to expect is it?

Ok, I'll bite.....

Most big companies will not tell you anything negative about a ex-employee/contractor, company rules are usually in place, so that company is protected from being sued.

How do TAV and the other agents on here answer that?

Is your experience different to mine in that respect? Do you hope to get the inside track on a call with someone from client co? ie. off the record

[The Agents View]

If only there was a way of vetting agents prior to them asking that question then it would be easier to decide whether or not to answer that question truthfully.

I keep trying, but people don't listen to me!

GET REFERENCES ON YOUR AGENT! Even if they're LinkedIn references, they should all give you a good idea - ideally you'd want to speak to a candidate who has been through the process with them to drill.

I would happily provide references to anyone who asked me for them - If I want them from you, it's not that much to expect is it?

[oracleslave]

No mate, I'm looking to find out if you are what you say you are, so that I don't put you in, and have you turn out to be tripe.....

If only there was a way of vetting agents prior to them asking that question then it would be easier to decide whether or not to answer that question truthfully.

[The Agents View]

Always a glut of asp.net people around, what's rarer is good asp.net people and it can be pretty hard to tell the good from the bad untill after they start

Not difficult to tell in my opinion, but does open up an argument. If you want to find out, you ask for references. Unfortunately, you then get the "you're fishing" argument. No mate, I'm looking to find out if you are what you say you are, so that I don't put you in, and have you turn out to be tripe.....