Reply to: Agent may be able to get me more!!

[thunderlizard]

The difference is, you have to tell us how much "profit" you're making - there's no requirement for us to do so

The contractor, or the client, can make that requirement as a condition of doing business with you. Many do - hence this thread.

there are literally people queuing up to provide their services

No there are not, unless you do a sideline in fruit-pickers or have been watching too much "On the Waterfront".

though basically of course you are right. The client's job is to get the contractor as cheaply as possible. The agent's is to get the contractor as cheaply as possible and supply them to the client as expensively as possible. The contractor's is to provide their services as expensively as possible. As long as nobody thinks they've got any moral justification for any of it, it's all good fun.

[The Agents View]

Well, it'sup to you to decide whether it matters or not, but to me it does. I've got a duty to my shareholders to make my company as profitable as possible. If I'm working on a contract where there's a middleman in the deal, it's my duty to try and find out how much he's charging, so that I can see if I can get some of it.

Well try looking at that from the other side then - we have stakeholders too (and some of us, shareholders as well) - It's our duty to make as much profit as possible also.

The difference is, you have to tell us how much "profit" you're making - there's no requirement for us to do so - and ultimately, if we decide to stand firm that our margin is our margin, ultimately, you have a choice to make. It's then worth bearing in mind that it affects you far more than it does us - there are literally people queuing up to provide their services - so I'm afraid that just at the moment we're in the driving seat.

The above doesn't mean that we should, or that we would, or that it's right, - it's also not what I do (fyi!)

[thunderlizard]

Having said all that, if you know what you are getting, and you are happy with that rate, then what does it matter what everyone else is doing?

Well, it'sup to you to decide whether it matters or not, but to me it does. I've got a duty to my shareholders to make my company as profitable as possible. If I'm working on a contract where there's a middleman in the deal, it's my duty to try and find out how much he's charging, so that I can see if I can get some of it.

[The Agents View]

I have never had a contract where the agency tells me their margin. I'm not sure why though, its not like we expect them to only take 1% so as long as its around 10% they shouldn't have anything to hide.

Having said all that, if you know what you are getting, and you are happy with that rate, then what does it matter what everyone else is doing?

I mean how do I know the agency Im doing work for isn't charging their customer £700 a day for my work?? Should I demand to see their books so I can work out an appropriate percentage for myself?

Just to adjust your expectation - Standard margin would normally be about 17.5% - 20% - Volume business will generally be 10 -15%, and 10% and below is purely for payroll business (although, I have a couple of people running at 7%, but that's cos they're £1500 per day pay!)

And...don't confuse mark up with Margin - Margin is the whole pie, divided 80:20 for example. Mark up, is adding 20% on top.....sorry to teach you to suck eggs, but i've had 4 conversations about that today alone!

[kingcook]

Its becoming more common - and to me, it seems like the way it should be. Nobody will begrudge an agent making their margin if they've done the job right for you, and you end up with a rate you're happy with.

Fixed margins mean that if the rate goes up, then the value of that margin goes up (so if rate goes up by £100 to you, its gone up by £125 to the client assuming the margin is 20%)

NB: £100 at 20% margin is £125 - 20% margin = 25% mark up.

I agree, it is the best way to go. Also, from a clients POV, they know that the contractor (and themselves) are not getting ripped off (which leads to everyone being happy).

[The Agents View]

Yeah, I've done jobs where they are completely open about what their margin is and the client has told me t the interview that the rate they are offering was X and the agent was taking Y so there would be no misunderstandings.

Its becoming more common - and to me, it seems like the way it should be. Nobody will begrudge an agent making their margin if they've done the job right for you, and you end up with a rate you're happy with.

Fixed margins mean that if the rate goes up, then the value of that margin goes up (so if rate goes up by £100 to you, its gone up by £125 to the client assuming the margin is 20%)

NB: £100 at 20% margin is £125 - 20% margin = 25% mark up.

[ItsQuickerAntiClockwise]

I have never had a contract where the agency tells me their margin. I'm not sure why though, its not like we expect them to only take 1% so as long as its around 10% they shouldn't have anything to hide.

Having said all that, if you know what you are getting, and you are happy with that rate, then what does it matter what everyone else is doing?

I mean how do I know the agency Im doing work for isn't charging their customer £700 a day for my work?? Should I demand to see their books so I can work out an appropriate percentage for myself?

[Wanderer]

Just spoke to an agent, and i told hime my daily rate. He says he has a fixed margin with the client, so i don't need to worry about him trying to get a lower rate for me to boost his margin. Infact, he said he would try and get more for me (obviously to boost his margin )

Yeah, I've done jobs where they are completely open about what their margin is and the client has told me t the interview that the rate they are offering was X and the agent was taking Y so there would be no misunderstandings.

[kingcook]

Agency is Mortimer Spinks

[BolshieBastard]

Just spoke to an agent, and i told hime my daily rate. He says he has a fixed margin with the client, so i don't need to worry about him trying to get a lower rate for me to boost his margin. Infact, he said he would try and get more for me (obviously to boost his margin )

Has anyone else had this spun on them?

Depends on the agency. I've had this before and the agents actually delivered.

[northernladuk]

Sounds like you are under cutting yourself here. Don't tell him what your daily rate is. Tell him what you want and he can negotiate you down. If you are the right person he isn't going to bin you just because you have pitched in 50 or even 100 quid too high. If you give him a rate and he can get more he is going to probably pocket the lot becuase you are not being very savvy.

[TykeMerc]

In the last 5 years or so when an Agent has told me they're on a fixed margin they've been proven to tell the truth, as a PM I usually get to see the invoices Their margins haven't been huge either, but they get a lot of repeat business.

Maybe it's pure luck that I've been dealing with the better guys in the Agency business, maybe it's the type of clients I tend to deal with.

[Svalbaard]

Just spoke to an agent, and i told hime my daily rate. He says he has a fixed margin with the client, so i don't need to worry about him trying to get a lower rate for me to boost his margin. Infact, he said he would try and get more for me (obviously to boost his margin )

Has anyone else had this spun on them?

Your post doesn't make sense. Not only because you can't spell or write properly, but also in fact that just because he has a fixed margin doesn't necessarily mean he can boost his margin above a known ceiling imposed by the client co. I can only presume you are talking in units of pounds per hour, rather than hundreds of pounds per day.

FYI - I bid my current role slightly lower than normal at high £400s due to a very short commute. After discussion, my current agency came back with an interview, an offer of high £500s plus a clear statement of % margin. Got the role and am very happy with them.

Not all agencies are cowboys and fishermen.

[CheeseSlice]

I'm sure he has a fixed margin:

40%

its fixed, because its non-negotiable

[thunderlizard]

It's been getting more common over the past few years. Occasionally it's nice to get to the end of the process without a single attempt to clobber you on rate, and realise they had actually been telling the truth!