Reply to: Giant fees

[The Agents View]

So a contractor gets a job direct with a client and that client demands that they use an agency on their PSL. Client pays out less commission to the agency and gets less admin hassle which also saves them money/time. Would see this as wrong too?

I'd rather that such things didn't happen but that's the way people do business in the big bad world.

Of course it's wrong! Thats a simple case of a fair price comparative to the amount of work - if the client is paying a low margin because it's a "put through" then there's a reason for that - the agent and agency should not then be looking to bolster it by taking bungs for referrals.

We are however, not talking about agencies - the arrangements are generally with the agents, and that money goes straight into their back pocket, for nothing more than influencing the contractor.

Maybe I'm naive, maybe I strive to be ethical, but to be honest - any kind of additional money that I haven't worked for, feels wrong - on that basis, I would therefore not take it.

TAV

[Wanderer]

It is wrong to take money in order to influence the decision of a contractor, end of.

So a contractor gets a job direct with a client and that client demands that they use an agency on their PSL. Client pays out less commission to the agency and gets less admin hassle which also saves them money/time. Would see this as wrong too?

I'd rather that such things didn't happen but that's the way people do business in the big bad world.

[Xtrain]

I think it is up to the agency how they want to run their business. If they recommend a brolly then it is up to the contractor to decide whether that recommendations suits them. In an ideal world the recommendation would be based on service rather than commissions paid. It is however not an ideal world and because of the economic climate agency margins are being tightened and they are looking at other avenues to increase their "take". Unfortunately for brollys they are looking in their direction which of course gets passed onto the contractor in fee increases. I think there is only so far these fees can be increased and when brollys are charging more than "real accountants" like it appears now it really is a no-brainer on which type of service to use.

[The Agents View]

Since when did a referral fees and commissions become "bungs" and "bribes"? That's a normal way of doing business, there's nothing wrong with it.

Wrong.

Commission - Reward for doing a job well (ie a candidate getting a job because you've intro'd them, prepped, scoped, referenced, and between you convinced the manager to hire).

Referral Fee - a gesture of goodwill for passing information to another company, where you have no vested interest in the outcome, like me passing you details of a job at another agency for example. It's not a referral fee, if you're given a reason to influence the outcome with made up advice.

The other side, is that agencies should not be recommending umbrellas anyway - sure they can state facts like "alot of our contractors use XYZ" but we're talking about restricting who people opt for here, on the basis of who had the most cash for referrals - not for legality, or service levels.

It is wrong to take money in order to influence the decision of a contractor, end of.

[Wanderer]

These people are unethical, and quite frankly a disgrace - Worse, are the people who actually take the bungs.

There are SO many reasons agents shouldn't take brolly bribes

Since when did a referral fees and commissions become "bungs" and "bribes"? That's a normal way of doing business, there's nothing wrong with it.

[The Agents View]

i once worked through an agency where the brolly gave them cash and they passed it over to the contractor. Their point was that they'd took a margin already which they were happy with so why take the mick. it's all brown paper bags with some of the brollies / agencies. I hear through a mate who works for a brolly that when they submitted a tender for a pretty huge PSL with a pretty big agency hated by pretty much every other recruitment agency in the industry that in their proposal one of the questions was something like "would you like to make a gesture of goodwill towards the upkeep of our contractor admin department that will come about due to the business levels you have with us" they wanted £x per payment processed

scumbags!

These people are unethical, and quite frankly a disgrace - Worse, are the people who actually take the bungs.

For me, a brolly is an extension of my brand - I work with a couple, who I trust and have good relationships with. They might take me for a drink once every 6 months or so - but pay me for my contractors? What if I make my recommendation, and the brolly screws it up?

There are SO many reasons agents shouldn't take brolly bribes, but my friends who work for them, still get asked regularly, "what are you going to do for me if I give you this contractor?"

Other agents on the board - am I alone in thinking this is wrong??

[MarkOD]

i once worked through an agency where the brolly gave them cash and they passed it over to the contractor. Their point was that they'd took a margin already which they were happy with so why take the mick. it's all brown paper bags with some of the brollies / agencies. I hear through a mate who works for a brolly that when they submitted a tender for a pretty huge PSL with a pretty big agency hated by pretty much every other recruitment agency in the industry that in their proposal one of the questions was something like "would you like to make a gesture of goodwill towards the upkeep of our contractor admin department that will come about due to the business levels you have with us" they wanted £x per payment processed

scumbags!

[The Agents View]

and agency commissions to pay!). .

People that take these bungs REALLLLLY upset me....

[Xtrain]

Brolly Fees

In the "old days" brollys used to charge either a weekly fee or a monthly fee dependent on how often your agency paid. For monthly paid the fee would work out cheaper as the brolly only has to do 1 payment process per month rather than 4 if you were paid weekly. I've noticed recently that a lot of the larger brollys have pushed their prices up for the monthly process to match the equiv. in weekly fees (they have profits to maintain and agency commissions to pay!). So its looks to me like you are paying £140 per month for someone to do 1 payroll process per month on your behalf! Virtually every accountancy company charges less for a full, limited company service.

[Wanderer]

Giant fees


I keep reading the title of this thread and thinking that the good times are back. Oh yeah, I'll have some of that.

[planetit]

Does anyone have experience with Giant?

I'm afraid so. the only advice I can give is Never Ever have anything to do with Giant. Since I started following this advice I've had no problems with them.

[SuperZ]

There is a daily allowance for postage as well!?!?? OMG, gotta call accoutant quick to stop him putting my returns in..

Nope I don't think so, but Giant I believe were encouraging sizable daily postage claims without proof........

[northernladuk]

£x per day postage costs

There is a daily allowance for postage as well!?!?? OMG, gotta call accoutant quick to stop him putting my returns in..

[Cloud9Umbrella]

Hi
I am new to contracting and I signed with Giant.
They have an option on their portal where they itemise the invoice charged to the agency. So my daily rate times 5 is charged to the agency then employers social security is deducted and then company administration fee is deducted. This company administration fee is 140 pounds per week.
This doesnt make sense as I thought the charge was 26 per week not 140.
Does anyone have experience with Giant?

If you have chosen to be paid monthly then your Umbrella fee would normally be deducted monthly which would explain this.

Or if you have chosen to be paid weekly, yet paying the fee monthly that could also explain.

Ask your Accounts Manager for more info. Any decent AMs would be happy to answer queries like this and resolve quickly for you.

[SuperZ]

Do they still do they dodgy food and postage claims? I heard they automatically allow £x per day (the maximum) food claim and £x per day postage costs that you have to opt out of claiming. I remember someone being told to collect "proof" for one week only as HMRC were having a look, so they bought food for other contractors also for the week just so that the figures on the receipt looked good.