Boomed then bust

[Joe Bloque]

I could relate to your story indirectly through my old man. He retired from Local Authority few years ago. No one remembers all the 'valiant battles' he fought in the administration while his less qualified low earning colleagues were looking after their buy-to-let portfolio in late 80'ies.

In my view there is no 'power base' unless you own the business or have a significant stake in it or have close connections up in the hierarchy. If you are salaried you are always at the mercy of the bloke on top - the 'power base' is just a sham. I've also seen the other side, early in my career i was working with a startup where i was helping a 22 year old 'CTO' write their business product. His 'power base' caught up with him so bad he had running battles practically every day with other directors and was forced to quit the company he co-founded and eventually went back to uni to get an "MBA".

I have a strong belief - technical wizardry, business acumen and office politics dont blend well in salaried permie job and thats precisely why i like contracting. Rant over.

self and get back to gig hunting.

[mace]

Thanks guys. It appears that if I get a job soon, there's a new term for people like me - "boomerang boss":-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8221512.stm

[Muttley08]

The way I look at it is that anyone with REAL experience knows politics happen on most roles - and that this sort of thing is part of the game.

Unfortunately most agents / HR people have no real experience of the world (outside or inside of work), so don't understand. You have to give them the 'real world lite' version of events.

Don't feel guilty about it - you're just giving information at the right level for someone's understanding of the situation

[Fred Bloggs]

Sometimes, it simply doesn't pay to be 100% truthful IMO. I would always put a positive gloss on a situation or else I would not make others aware of a situation where I felt I could be seen in a negative light. In front of a prospective employer you simply have to appear to be whiter than white. There's no other way that I can think of really.

[mace]

If you were made redundant then they shouldn't be advertising the role.
Technically (and legally) it is the role which is made redundant not the person.


As you seem to realise you have to be able to put a positive spin onto your situation with your old company.

I think one possible explanation you can give, and I have seen this happen to someone before, is that you climbed as high as was possible in that company only to find once you had got to the top, there was actually no room up there.
Realistically, you can't step down a few rungs so the only way is out by resignation or redundancy. Given that the role you were occupying by the end no longer existed (if it ever did exist at that level) you were offered redundancy.
Like I said, it is something I've seen before. Not sure how common it is.

I don't know how close a fit this is to your circumstances, your post left out the exact details of why you were made redundant.

The role they will be advertising now will be a junior version of what you were doing. Less money, less authority.

Cheers. I'm aware of the legality around them re-advertising my role and was surprised that they've not even bothered to give it another title. At the end of the day, however, I'd already threatened to resign the role and they gave me 3 months worth of pay. Given that it would be a load of hassle, I'd be unlikely to get more money from an employment tribunal and it's easier to smooth things over if I want to move on, I'd rather just put it down to bad luck. The bad aspect is that I get quizzed about it by just about every agent on the market whose worked in my industry sector, which isn't large.

The reasons why I got made redundant were complex. I got brought in to select and implement a new solution, the original solution having been developed by my original boss. The political backing for the project was via the CTO with a half hearted backing from the CFO and lukewarm backing from the rest of the board. My boss had had a significant amount of his empire taken away from him just before I joined the company, and my taking on the new project took another chunk of territory away. He was consequently unsupportive both whilst the suppliers were delivering the project and more significantly after they left. By the time the suppliers had left, I'd been promoted so as to be on the same level as him. The other manager that I managed to upset was the development manager. I had relatively few staff compared to her and needed her assistance to deliver a significant part of a project for which she was programme manager. She was reluctant to cede staff to me, and I refused to be a PM under her command unless she supplied me with sufficient technical resource for me to be able to do the work. Having got myself in to a standoff with the development manager, my old boss saw the opportunity to settle an old score and withdrew the necessary technical support from my completed solution. With 2 fronts against me, I threatened to resign unless things were sorted out quickly. Rather than support me, the CTO made me redundant as the easier option. Obviously I've learnt a few lessons from this e.g. make sure you get a power base first, don't fly too high too quickly etc., but I'd rather just chalk it up to bad luck.

[mace]

Sounds like you moving from permie to permie. Open the door to contracting, at least in the future when applying for a permie job you can then give a valid reason for leaving last job.

Don`t believe HR reassurances. If they wanted you, they wouldn`t have readvertised it to compare candidates - that`s rubbish. If after they have interviewed the new candidates they get back to you and said "Yes", would you take it? I wouldn`t, that`s worse than second best, that`s more like being chosen as being top of the pile of rubbish. If they haven`t already seen your potential enough to give you the job, forget it, find another company who see your potential immediately

As mentioned elsewhere, give HR or askers of HR related questions the answers they want to hear. Voluntary redundany, redundancy, looking for new challenge etc.

Good luck !

Thanks. You're on the money with the way I felt when I heard the excuse last week from the HR lady. When I rang up last week I started by telling her that I was disappointed to hear that I hadn't got the job as I'd just been rung up by an agent advertising the role only to be told by her not to be so defeatist. My perception of the company had taken a knock with what I'd considered a very insensitive interviewing technique and, with the re-advertising, I was keen on having another chat with the manager had I'd been offered the job. My disappointment is really that I'd gone out and found that role off my own bat, on paper it was a good fit and I'd breezed the technical parts of the interview, so the thing that's stopped me getting the role is the lack of "people skills" highlighted by my departure from the previous job. Given that I'm unlikely to find such a good hard skills fit, I'm going to have to really up my game glossing over the reason for leaving to secure another role or, as you say, secure a contract in which case the soft skills stuff they like permies to have is less important.

[Spacecadet]

If you were made redundant then they shouldn't be advertising the role.
Technically (and legally) it is the role which is made redundant not the person.


As you seem to realise you have to be able to put a positive spin onto your situation with your old company.

I think one possible explanation you can give, and I have seen this happen to someone before, is that you climbed as high as was possible in that company only to find once you had got to the top, there was actually no room up there.
Realistically, you can't step down a few rungs so the only way is out by resignation or redundancy. Given that the role you were occupying by the end no longer existed (if it ever did exist at that level) you were offered redundancy.
Like I said, it is something I've seen before. Not sure how common it is.

I don't know how close a fit this is to your circumstances, your post left out the exact details of why you were made redundant.

The role they will be advertising now will be a junior version of what you were doing. Less money, less authority.

[SuperZ]

As some of you may know, I've been awaiting feedback on 2 permie roles that I've been chasing. Sadly, today 1 of them has got back to me to tell me that they won't be proceeding. I'm a bit gutted as the role was particularly well suited for me but felt that after the 2nd interview that it was unlikely that I'd get it and especially, despite reassurances from the onsite HR lady that they just wanted to compare other candidates, after they re-advertised the role last week.

My main problem is that I was reporting to the directors in my last role, so my departure was not insignificant. The company is in a sector which has been relatively immune from the recession and my role is being advertised by my previous company. Although, I was officially made redundant, it's a hard sell to tell interviewers that it was due to the recession when the reality is that it was due to office politics. Most interviewers ask subtle questions but the interviewer for this company wouldn't let me off the hook so in the end I just came up with the cultural fit was wrong. Still wracking my brains as to what I could have come up with which would have sounded more feasible. I could diminish my role but then it would feel that all the effort I put in has gone to waste.

Ideas most welcome. I still have the other company (won't hear til next week) but the company that I've been rejected for was in the same sector whilst the other company is just offering the same technology.

Sounds like you moving from permie to permie. Open the door to contracting, at least in the future when applying for a permie job you can then give a valid reason for leaving last job.

Don`t believe HR reassurances. If they wanted you, they wouldn`t have readvertised it to compare candidates - that`s rubbish. If after they have interviewed the new candidates they get back to you and said "Yes", would you take it? I wouldn`t, that`s worse than second best, that`s more like being chosen as being top of the pile of rubbish. If they haven`t already seen your potential enough to give you the job, forget it, find another company who see your potential immediately

As mentioned elsewhere, give HR or askers of HR related questions the answers they want to hear. Voluntary redundany, redundancy, looking for new challenge etc.

Good luck !

[chris79]

You've pretty much identified where things went wrong (in your view), and to be honest, most people would feel uncomfortable giving the green light (on their head) to a candidate who had 'cultural issues' at their last place of work - given that you've openly admitted this, but tried to cover it up?

All you can do is put it down to experience and make sure that you have a full-proof cover story for the next interview if the situation arises again.

Unlucky on not landing the role, but then again who knows what other factors have been the decider - perhaps it's not what you think? Just move on from it and concentrate on the next opportunity - remember, never love a job you don't have! And don't make them make you doubt yourself, sometimes things just don't work out because of 'people issues'.

[mace]

As some of you may know, I've been awaiting feedback on 2 permie roles that I've been chasing. Sadly, today 1 of them has got back to me to tell me that they won't be proceeding. I'm a bit gutted as the role was particularly well suited for me but felt that after the 2nd interview that it was unlikely that I'd get it and especially, despite reassurances from the onsite HR lady that they just wanted to compare other candidates, after they re-advertised the role last week.

My main problem is that I was reporting to the directors in my last role, so my departure was not insignificant. The company is in a sector which has been relatively immune from the recession and my role is being advertised by my previous company. Although, I was officially made redundant, it's a hard sell to tell interviewers that it was due to the recession when the reality is that it was due to office politics. Most interviewers ask subtle questions but the interviewer for this company wouldn't let me off the hook so in the end I just came up with the cultural fit was wrong. Still wracking my brains as to what I could have come up with which would have sounded more feasible. I could diminish my role but then it would feel that all the effort I put in has gone to waste.

Ideas most welcome. I still have the other company (won't hear til next week) but the company that I've been rejected for was in the same sector whilst the other company is just offering the same technology.