Reply to: Warranties in contracts

[rootsnall]

Or the litigation begins

I know small company's are happy to sign up to deliver anything and worry about things later...

Seriously, there are a number of government contracts that have ended in tears like this...

And you can understand why they do it. Not sure how I'll react when another 'warranty' contract comes up. Good money and near home and I'd take the gamble again but probably be more defensive in my attitude from Day 1.

[Muttley08]

Yes, there is a concept and a budget. When money runs out the project ends. Simples and no risk.

Or the litigation begins

I know small company's are happy to sign up to deliver anything and worry about things later...

Seriously, there are a number of government contracts that have ended in tears like this...

[Turion]

What world is that in, I work with many companies who are forced to work fixed price without an agreed spec let alone agreed designs!

Yes, there is a concept and a budget. When money runs out the project ends. Simples and no risk.

[MPwannadecentincome]

WHS - Complete twoddle! Fixed price work (which this is, in essence) needs huge contracts, agreed designs etc etc)

It's just a small minded pimp / company trying it on...all going to end in tears either way...

What world is that in, I work with many companies who are forced to work fixed price without an agreed spec let alone agreed designs!

[Muttley08]

If it makes you feel any better, all the cases I've heard of withholding or playing silly sausages have involved the agency paying eventually when someone digs their heels in and threatens court, or instigates the court action.

Hope it works out, keep us posted.

[rootsnall]

You are stressing that clause though. Fact is they probably would resist paying you anyway, with or without it.

How much is owed and is it just the last invoice they have not paid (the only invoice for a doomed project perhaps?)

Was 10K+, now 5K+. I had 2 outstanding, one now paid. Agreed, if they are skint and in trouble they could of not paid anyway. The clause just makes my legal case a bit more complicated if I don't eventually get the lot.

[Turion]

I didn't stress enough and hence signed up. The problem is they aren't paying my invoice hence the stress has kicked in.

I'm a no insurance man, I've not seen a debate on that for a while. My theory, and it holds in this case is that a one man Ltd isn't worth chasing. I do have slight concerns about the personal liability stuff but not enough to shell out.

You are stressing that clause though. Fact is they probably would resist paying you anyway, with or without it.

How much is owed and is it just the last invoice they have not paid (the only invoice for a doomed project perhaps?)

[rootsnall]

These are on contracts all the time. The warranties are what makes having all the right insurances so important. I've never heard of anyone being caught out too badly other than a couple of hours remedial. Don't stress about it too much.

I didn't stress enough and hence signed up. The problem is they aren't paying my invoice hence the stress has kicked in.

I'm a no insurance man, I've not seen a debate on that for a while. My theory, and it holds in this case is that a one man Ltd isn't worth chasing. I do have slight concerns about the personal liability stuff but not enough to shell out.

[Jet Setter]

These are on contracts all the time. The warranties are what makes having all the right insurances so important. I've never heard of anyone being caught out too badly other than a couple of hours remedial. Don't stress about it too much.

[rootsnall]

I've had a warranty clause in my contracts for years, but I've also got the following at the bottom of my timesheets:



I also fix things when they are broken because of something I omitted/did wrong. I've worked for free for about 10 hours in the last 4 years.

On the project in question I'd be there for 4 years doing 10 hours a day

[Moscow Mule]

I've had a warranty clause in my contracts for years, but I've also got the following at the bottom of my timesheets:

The work evidenced on this timesheet has been performed by the service provider to the satisfaction of the Client and in accordance with the service agreement (ref: BLAH) and Engagement Schedule (BLAH) under the Client Purchase Order reference PO # BLAH. The Client signature on this timesheet is the Client authority for payment in accordance with the above mentioned agreements.

I also fix things when they are broken because of something I omitted/did wrong. I've worked for free for about 10 hours in the last 4 years.

[BlasterBates]

Exactly, the courts look very favourably on the supplier, because if it is chaotic it is bl**dy obvious. Saw a dispute once firsthand, though I was just an employee of the company, and they sued the client and got paid. If it doesn't contradict any requirements written down, then basically as long as everything works without crashing or obvious defects like slow reports, then you get paid.

[thunderlizard]

a client thinking they've done well screwing a consultancy with a tight contract, and then the consultancy trying to pass it on to the plebs like me. Result is a mess for all.

Nasty! as a sensible project manager once said to me, you can bully people into accepting impossible terms but you can't bully them into meeting them.

[rootsnall]

I was working as a PM at a place when the agency / company (they were a bit of both - sold a dev team into the place) were trying this. Was a nightmare from the word go (they'd agreed 6 month delivery without knowing detailed requirements - and it was financial so couldn't be completely flexible with delivery). They tried it with a few guys, but paid in the end once threatened with legal action - think it was small claims court.

I left because I had no control over anything - and the head of development wanted to go live without a UAT! (bonuses for hitting deadlines I think) Thinking about it, they messed about with my last payment (sent to wrong bank account / other bullcrap etc..) - about 2 months later and I threatened charging interest, legal proceedings etc.. before they paid.

I'm sure the fact that it's a straight contract, they can't withhold anything - and I'm sure the small claims court isn't that much of a pain - especially if you present a diary of what's happened (you're handover details, what you were asked to do - and the fact the company hasn't given a written objection will all look pretty bad in court).

I agree with what you are saying but its a b*llache I could do without ! The scenario is being driven by a client thinking they've done well screwing a consultancy with a tight contract, and then the consultancy trying to pass it on to the plebs like me. Result is a mess for all.

Always be wary of the 'agency/company' = COWBOYS !

I have had my onw rules in place that mean I've avoided contracts like this for years but in a tulip market you are forced to bend the rules.

[Muttley08]

It's already ending in tears as 'small minded company' are not paying an invoice, they have so far not provided a written reason for this. I signed the contract due to nothing else on the table and the fact the contract just says 'provide skills in X and Y' so there is nothing written down to provide a warranty against. I'm still sure I'd win any legal argument but the point is if I go legal and they challenge it then I'm in court and all that entails. Without the 'warranty' bit they would defo lose in court and I'd go for it, with that they can argue. I left the contract with a detailed written handover explaining exactly where the work was up to, why it wasn't complete, and what needed to be done. Even if I'd hung around I still couldn't of finished the work as X,Y,Z,.etc etc were not place. In other words a mess of project ! So what do you do then ?

I was working as a PM at a place when the agency / company (they were a bit of both - sold a dev team into the place) were trying this. Was a nightmare from the word go (they'd agreed 6 month delivery without knowing detailed requirements - and it was financial so couldn't be completely flexible with delivery). They tried it with a few guys, but paid in the end once threatened with legal action - think it was small claims court.

I left because I had no control over anything - and the head of development wanted to go live without a UAT! (bonuses for hitting deadlines I think) Thinking about it, they messed about with my last payment (sent to wrong bank account / other bullcrap etc..) - about 2 months later and I threatened charging interest, legal proceedings etc.. before they paid.

I'm sure the fact that it's a straight contract, they can't withhold anything - and I'm sure the small claims court isn't that much of a pain - especially if you present a diary of what's happened (you're handover details, what you were asked to do - and the fact the company hasn't given a written objection will all look pretty bad in court).