Prince2 and ITIL

[dozer]

..a quote from a current vacancy "Mandatory skills; Prince 2 and MSP methodology, OGC Gateway reviews experience" for what seems like a standard Test Manager position. Oh, and of course it also asks for current SC Clearance.

i read that as understanding the methodology, which as already stated is one in the same for both prince2 and msp. most organisations use their own governance systems, i would be highlighting youre familiar with gating process etc.

security clearance is another kettle of fish.

[Belle]

I hope it is bollocks because I have absolutely no idea what msp is

..a quote from a current vacancy "Mandatory skills; Prince 2 and MSP methodology, OGC Gateway reviews experience" for what seems like a standard Test Manager position. Oh, and of course it also asks for current SC Clearance.

[malvolio]

Management of Successful Programmes. The HMG-preferred protocol for large project control, evolved out of one of the very rare sucessful major programme implementations. The only difference between MSP and PRINCE/Prince2 is the use of mandatory gateway peer reviews (useful for HMG because they can stop runaway programmes from running too far. What a shame they are utterly ineffective in acheiving that aim!.)

At the end of the day, all any of them do is ensure you are aware of all the key stages in a project life-cycle. And if you don't know that already, you probably shouldn;' be trying to be a PM - which is no doubt why 99% of expereinced PMs take no notice of them

[HeadOfTesting]

msp to become a test manager? sounds like bollocks.

I hope it is bollocks because I have absolutely no idea what msp is

[Hawkeye]

You could just do the ITIL foundation and the Prince2 foundation with self study and take the exam. If you book it via a course it is more costly.

I would be interested to hear about and Scrum courses if anyone has attended them in London.

[Belle]

msp to become a test manager? sounds like bollocks.

Totally agree but kind of agree with HeadofTesting as well - right now just give them what they want even though you know you won't ever use it

[Belle]

Can anyone recommend the best (i.e. cheapest) way to get these certifications (Scrum and/or Prince2)?

[dozer]

I've also noticed clients asking for test management staff to have these qualifications. To be honest, this trend started well before this downturn. If anything I'd say it's more common for test managemnt job specs to specify these than it is for them to ask for the advanced ISEB/ISTQB testing qualifications.

Bring a certified Scum master is also looking increasingly necessary. I'm looking at that right now because from Oct 1st you'll need to take an exam to get it rather than just stay awake in a 2 day course

Personally I'm a great believer in giving the market what it thinks it wants. Not what I think it wants. Not what I think it should want. Not what I think it will want in more "normal" market conditions etc.

master of scum, king of nothing.

msp to become a test manager? sounds like bollocks.

[HeadOfTesting]

I've also noticed clients asking for test management staff to have these qualifications. To be honest, this trend started well before this downturn. If anything I'd say it's more common for test managemnt job specs to specify these than it is for them to ask for the advanced ISEB/ISTQB testing qualifications.

Bring a certified Scum master is also looking increasingly necessary. I'm looking at that right now because from Oct 1st you'll need to take an exam to get it rather than just stay awake in a 2 day course

Personally I'm a great believer in giving the market what it thinks it wants. Not what I think it wants. Not what I think it should want. Not what I think it will want in more "normal" market conditions etc.

[kaiser78]

And I know people are going to reply that clients can ask for anything at the moment due to the economy blah blah blah. It's just frustrating. Should I be doing an online Prince2 course just to get it on my CV (£470!) and will that help?

I did the PRINCE2 Practitioner exam back in 2001 I think it was, out of my own pocket having been made redundant. This was an enabler for me getting my first contract and the rest is history as they say. Best £1000 I 've ever spent...I am in the PM line, so will be more relevant than testing to do.

[Hawkeye]

I agree but it seems to be commonly asked. I have never been in an organisation that used Prince2 end to end but they definitely requested it on the job description.
I remember when I graduated everyone needed to see some qualification in order to believe that I could use Microsoft Word or Excel! I had to go out and do an IT course on the MS Office suite at a local college just to keep them quiet.

[Belle]

And I know people are going to reply that clients can ask for anything at the moment due to the economy blah blah blah. It's just frustrating. Should I be doing an online Prince2 course just to get it on my CV (£470!) and will that help?

[Belle]

They might want the candidates to have an overall understanding of the project lifecycle

I have an overall understanding of the project lifecycle having worked for 10 years within a huge amount of different projects. And it's taught me that practically, these methodologies mean jack sh*t. 'Scuse the language but it's frustrating when you know you can do a job but don't have the one mandatory tick (which is useless anyway).

[Hawkeye]

They might want the candidates to have an overall understanding of the project lifecycle. Having the foundation qualifications on both would probably more reasonable than practitioner. I have noticed all adverts are very focused but I guess they can be picky at the moment. A lot of PM roles I have seen are asking for technical expertise (basically a jack of all trades).

[Belle]

Starting to get sick of Test Manager adverts that ask for Prince2 AND ITIL or MSP qualifications . We're friggin Test Managers not Project Managers. Wonder how many benched TM's have these anyway?