Reply to: Time to convert

[dkennedy1001]

Thanks for the replies.

I can see that taking a risk is just part of the whole contracting ethos hence the rewards.

I will go for it when I am more trained then the average contractor in my field so as to create my own luck.

Cheers

[MPwannadecentincome]

The lowest return against gross income is by Umbrella users (even less than permies unless you're cheating the expenses).

Where are the sums for permie vs brolly please - this intrigues me how the brolly net is worse than permie esp as permies cannot claim commuting expenses.


EDIT sorry question withdrawn answer is at http://forums.contractoruk.com/916112-post30.html - I never saw that answer as I was away from CUK for a few days

[RichardCranium]

Disagree with that. In some scenarios, it would be cheaper to go down the brollie route (such as rate and IR35). I started off with an Umbrella, as I wasn't sure if me going contracting would work.

I said "If you are serious about contracting, go LtdCo. from the start". You weren't. So you don't disagree, you agree.

Edit: sorry, that sounds harsh. I don't mean it that way. I have never used a brolly, but I can imagine cases where it would suit some people occasionally, temporarily. Specifically, someone who is unsure, or someone who knows they are going back to permie within a year or two. In that case, it is financially less worthwhile, but why have all the aggro of learning how to run a LtdCo - and dammit, Daddy, there is a hell of a lot to learn about rock and roll, sorry, running a LtdCo - when you could just turn up and take the money, if that is what one wants?

It's a lifestyle decision, and provided one does the research and makes an informed decision, either brolly or LtdCo might be right.

Edit 2: a scenario. A 12 month contract comes up to do some networky stuff in a war zone for £1,500 per day + all expenses + bodyguard. The intention is to get married in 18 months. You could do the gig under a brolly, come back, buy a house outright, then forget you ever went and go back to being a permie with a pension. No fear of the tax man chasing you later because of a contract re-interpretation, no keeping 7 year's records, no paperwork, nothing.

[kaiser78]

Rubbish. Do the sums (properly!). The lowest return against gross income is by Umbrella users (even less than permies unless you're cheating the expenses). Even inside IR35, you net more with your own company.

95% of the time, you use an umbrella ieither becuase you can't be bothered with the (trivial) hassle of running your own company and don't mind throwing away income, or you are just starting out and need to focus on the work rather than the administration and legalities.

Agree - never opt to go for the brolly option over ltd co. It is simply not financially advantageous.

[malvolio]

Disagree with that. In some scenarios, it would be cheaper to go down the brollie route (such as rate and IR35). I started off with an Umbrella, as I wasn't sure if me going contracting would work.

Rubbish. Do the sums (properly!). The lowest return against gross income is by Umbrella users (even less than permies unless you're cheating the expenses). Even inside IR35, you net more with your own company.

95% of the time, you use an umbrella ieither becuase you can't be bothered with the (trivial) hassle of running your own company and don't mind throwing away income, or you are just starting out and need to focus on the work rather than the administration and legalities.

[pmeswani]

If you are serious about contracting, go LtdCo. from the start. When you start shopping around for an accountant, you could ask if they will sort that out for you; many will.

Disagree with that. In some scenarios, it would be cheaper to go down the brollie route (such as rate and IR35). I started off with an Umbrella, as I wasn't sure if me going contracting would work.

[Evil Hangover]

If you never take any risks, you'll never make any mistakes. However you'll also never get anywhere, or at least know what could have been

Calypso experience is a very valuable skillset right now. You can still get gigs on 4 weeks notice, despite what others would like you to believe.

Good Luck.

[herman_g]

Immediately available is by far the best way to get a contract.

Lost many contracts where the interview went perfect but they needed me to start "Monday" in less than a week.

Gained many contracts where I was not exactly first choice but COULD be there Monday.

Only got into contract after leaving a very cushy role ( my last permie job ).

When you are on the street ( fresh from a permie job or whatever ), it is far quicker to get a contract then it is to attend first, second, third, HR psychological interview, etc.

It's not for everybody since you need a bit of balls.

[shoes]

Every project Ive joined that definently needed me straight away and required me to 'hit the ground running' etc etc gave me nothing to do for at least the first 2 weeks because they weren't ready for me.

To the OP, don't resign until you have a counter signed contract. If they want you next week or no contract, start next week. Use up holiday for some of it, phone in sick if you think that will help, keep things amicable if possible, but the contract wins, they are paying more.

[Stolly]

I had a role fall through because they wouldn't wait 3 weeks even though the jobspec could have been written by me, for me. It was literally perfect, and thats why i applied even though 3 weeks is a long time*

They gave it to someone else who wasn't as good a fit, but could start next day.

18 month project too. Couldn't wait 3 weeks.

* i did make my availability clear to the pimp, who said it was OK. I made the mistake of assuming she'd then informed the client. She didn't. Waste of £100 in train tickets and a day of my time.

[nomadd]

Basically I was wondering that if I applied for a contract role (Calypso Developer) are the clients usually happy to wait for a while to allow you to hand in your notice and get set up as a contractor?

Clients never plan ahead. They always want someone now. There are probably a few hundred Calypso contractors who are seasoned pros and are available right now. What do you think your chances are against that sort of competition (seriously)?

Unless: 1) Your notice period is very short; 2) You've already handed in your notice; 3) You are very, very lucky; I'd say your chances aren't good. Best thing is to try and find a contract through the network of Calypso contacts you already know.

Nomadd

[RichardCranium]

I just have a question around how long it takes to convert from permie to a contractor.

If you are prepared, one interview.

I was thinking of doing it in a year maybe when rates pick up and the recession eases off.

Well done! You are thinking, thinking ahead and planning. You WILL succeed.

Basically I was wondering that if I applied for a role are the clients usually happy to wait for a while to allow you to hand in your notice and get set up as a contractor?

Normally, no. If they were willing to wait, they'd be taking on a permie.

And in relation to this what are the average set up times between going under an umbrella company versus limited company?

If you are serious about contracting, go LtdCo. from the start. When you start shopping around for an accountant, you could ask if they will sort that out for you; many will.

[weemster]

Hi,

I just have a question around how long it takes to convert from permie to a contractor. I was thinking of doing it in a year maybe when rates pick up and the recession eases off.

Basically I was wondering that if I applied for a contract role (Calypso Developer) are the clients usually happy to wait for a while to allow you to hand in your notice and get set up as a contractor?

And in relation to this what are the average set up times between going under an umbrella company versus limited company?

Thanks a lot
Dave

Pretty much as Malvolio has said. Very tough in the beginning, look into cutting down notice periods using holiday or unpaid leave for example. Not sure about timescales for umbrellas (never used one) but LTD is quick although all the documents to setup the bank accounts/VAT can take a few weeks. All in all the process isn't to long.

[DiscoStu]

Every half decent job is attracting around 300 applicants on average, some of whom can actually do it. What's so special about you that people will want to wait while you tidy up the loose ends?

Contracting is a risky game. The biggest risk is when you start; if you're not availalble, you won't get work. Seemples...

A most restrained answer, well done

[malvolio]

Every half decent job is attracting around 300 applicants on average, some of whom can actually do it. What's so special about you that people will want to wait while you tidy up the loose ends?

Contracting is a risky game. The biggest risk is when you start; if you're not availalble, you won't get work. Seemples...