Reply to: agency - late payment

[Lumiere]

any luck ?

[vfr_rider]

edit pending further info....!

[chef]

all this sounds very familiar..

Chef co ltd > agency 1 > agency 2 > Client

exact same payment arangements as you have i.e work 1st - end of month, send invoice, paid in 28 days.

They reguarly paid me 5 - 10 days late.

I got fed up and sent them an invoice with late payment fee's etc as advised by payontime and also sent letter the next time they were 1 day over due

It just so happened that this was the month that they went bust, that was 18 months ago and they still owe me circa 9k which I have no hope of seeing as Administrators are in charge (and of course they bill high and get paid first)

My advice and the lesson I've learnt: Nobody else gives a sh!t about Your Co. and the only way to ensure you survive is to be tough from the start.

goto payontime and follow it to the letter and never delay a day. Agents either shape up quick smart (liek current agency did after the first month was 6 days late) or they mess you around and you get out asap.

good luck with getting what your due, but dont have the mentality that "this is a great gig and it'd be a shame to lose it", unless your being paid your working on your 'great long term gig' for free.. better to be looking elsewhere and on the bench than spending your time racking up expenses and working for free IMO.

Chef

[ratewhore]

of course, there's the issue of the seething, bubbling rage in the pit of my stomach that comes from knowing that they're getting a nice slice for doing less than nothing...

No, the issue is; you are working, agency 1 bills client and gets money, agency 2 fecks up billing agency 1 and doesn't get money. Agency 2 won't give you money.

That's the issue. If it is happening regularly (i.e. you are a couple of months down the line with no money), you wouldn't see me for dust.

[Not So Wise]

I was given the whole 'we're dissapointed about how you've gone about doing things' etc. spiel from the agents

Deja Vu

Last time I heard this in regards to agency payments the agency went bust week later owing me a lot of money.

Ok will say this, but will qualify it with standard disclaimer, this is what I would if I was in your situation, if it is suitable and right choice for you will depend on your personal circumstances

As no reasonable assurances have been received from agency that payment will be forthcoming promptly (quite the opposite from what I am reading) would type email giving them to end of week to either have transmitted the funds or to send proof that they have done so. Failure to do so will result in you not turning up on Monday. (Make Email nice and professional) Copy client and first tier agency (if not already speaking to MD at 2nd tier agency try to obtain his email via social engineering and copy him as well).

Before sending it, book meeting with your client/line manager, explain situation in very simple terms to them (no need to get into all the back and forth, just quite simply not been paid and agency not committing so far to pay you in reasonable timeframe) to give them a heads up that you might be finished on Friday (Do not make it sound like you are asking for their help).

If he does not start screaming down phone at agents straight away (or if client starts bitching at you about leaving him the lurch) send email and if you send via client system make sure to send copy to personal email addy.

Start looking at jobserve, because even if this tactic gives results you still want out of that mess

[RichardCranium]

"send agency completed timesheets and an invoice by the 5th day of the following month to qualify for same month payment."

I'm invoicing a month in arrears effectively - june at the beginning of july, july at the beginning of august etc.

That's common enough. Work done on 1st June getting invoiced 1st week in July and paid end of July, see the money in your LtdCo account at the start of August. Say, 9 weeks from 1st day on site to seeing any money; 5 weeks from the end of the working month to having the money.

How long are you having to wait? If it is more than that, do what the PayOnTime people say. Link:

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

You send the first "Where's my money?" email/letter on the 1st day after the last day you should have received payment. So if you work in June, invoice 1st July, the letter will be going in the first week in August.

By following due process, you can get the agency threatened with legal closure. When they realise that, even the bad ones tend to cough up.

[vfr_rider]

Wtf? They are stiffing you and you still ask the question!!

Lot's of good advice here. It's up to you if you use it or not now...

well it seems to be them or nothing at the moment. seems agents like to stick together, bless them. is it worth walking out of a potentially long term assignment if they can get their act together?

of course, there's the issue of the seething, bubbling rage in the pit of my stomach that comes from knowing that they're getting a nice slice for doing less than nothing...

[ratewhore]

do I carry on with the current agent as things stand?

Wtf? They are stiffing you and you still ask the question!!

Lot's of good advice here. It's up to you if you use it or not now...

[vfr_rider]

So you work 1st Jun to 30th Jun, then raise an invoice on 1st July. Agent then has until 31st July to pay, or 31st August to pay? That is not clear from your ambiguous statement. What is the exact wording, please?

copying and pasting the wording could compromise anonimity - but I can paraphrase: send us (agency) completeted timesheets and an invoice by the 5th day of the following month to qualify for same month payment.

I'm invoicing a month in arrears effectively - june at the beginning of july, july at the beginning of august etc.

[vfr_rider]

thanks for the advice guys, especially mr cranium.

the way I've handled this makes me think I ought to be changing my name to 'richard cranium' by deed poll

regarding going direct - this is looking increasingly difficult.

during initial contact with the 'real' agency (one of the biggest resource providers in europe) the extent of the problems were revealed to me. at that point, I expressed my concerns and asked the 'real' agency what would happen should my current contract fall apart, or the contracted agency were to go bust - could I go direct?

the mickey mouse agency found out about this later in the day, and started levelling the accusation that I was trying to set up some sort of situation where I could be released from the contract in order to get more money (their margin is 20%). more lies.

this made me very angry indeed. it didn't help that the agency representative was chewing gum during the call.

the upshot is that they have managed to 'spook' the other agency (which is notoriously easy to do, they are massive and they don't need the hassle), to the point where it would be very difficult to switch.

i'm now faced with the very real possibility of having to look elsewhere for work. I do have a bit of a short temper, and I don't like being lied to. I was given the whole 'we're dissapointed about how you've gone about doing things' etc. spiel from the agents - before they hung up on me.

do I carry on with the current agent as things stand? the working relationship between myself and the agent is pretty bad now... I absolutely resent the fact that they're getting a large cut for what is, in effect, an absolutely useless service.

I'm on a potentially long term government assignment - it's been brilliant until now.

what I don't understand is how the guy going to work and doing a good job gets shafted? this has completely re-inforced my opinion of agents as nothing more than parasites.

[FarmerPalmer]

If the agent hasn't paid within the terms in the contract then that is a material breach of contract and the contract is now null and void.

Speak to the client and tell them the situation and ask if there is an alternative agent with better payment terms or option of going direct. Your current agent can not do anything about you doing this as they have already voided the contract they had with you. Don't stick at it too long as it stands or you may never get your money and you'll be working for nothing.

[RichardCranium]

I'm so angry I'm having trouble thinking straight at the moment.

i'll try replying when I've calmed down a bit.

Oh. So you really do need some proper advice.

PART ONE - GETTING YOUR MONEY

I invoice monthly in arrears.

I'm on a two tier contract.

The contract states same month payment - by the end of the subsequent month.

So you work 1st Jun to 30th Jun, then raise an invoice on 1st July. Agent then has until 31st July to pay, or 31st August to pay? That is not clear from your ambiguous statement. What is the exact wording, please?

just called the 'primary tier' agency - making the direct agent even more pointless - and they're telling me that the last invoice from the 'second tier' (the agents I invoice directly) weren't up to scratch - so that's another months' money on hold.

That's neither any of your business nor your concern. Do not enquire or get involved. Not unless your contract says "We don't pay vfr_rider until we have been paid". Then you're f***ed.

I borrow a fiver off you. I lend a fiver to Fred. You ask for your fiver back. I say "Fred hasn't given me my fiver back". WTF has that got to do with your fiver? Nothing.

They're not paying me because the primary tier agency haven't paid them - this was admitted openly. breach of contract was also admitted. apparently they are owed approx 90 days worth of money - suddenly this becomes my problem.

It is not your problem and none of your business. Your agency owes you money. Nothing else matters. Seriously.

Why not run a credit check against them to see if there are any issues?

Do this. It only costs a few quid and it makes interesting reading. When you've finished tulipting yourself, do a credit check on your own company. That'll put it into perspective.

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

No other advice is really relevant except:

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

JFDI. It works. It is what the law says. Do not waste money on lawyers, solicitor's letters, or any other distraction.

Check what your contract with your agency actually says then follow the advice at:

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

Did I remember to mention follow the advice at:

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

If not, here it is:

http://www.payontime.co.uk/

PART TWO - SHOULD YOU WALK?

Q. Should you stay or keep turning up?

You will get differing opinions here. Would walking minimise your losses? Would it prevent you going direct with the client if the agent goes bust? Would it put you in breach of contract and make matters worse?

Answering this will depend on the wording of the contract and your relationship with the client.

Beware of colleagues recommending you walk: they will piss themselves laughing if you do.

[vfr_rider]

Client is probably late paying agency, which can be regular in buisness world (hopefully client not likely to go belly up?)

1st Agency is late paying 2nd agency (either because they are too mickey mouse to have the cash without getting paid or just being prats)

2nd Agency is to mickey mouse to be able to pay you without getting paid first

*sigh* Even if you get paid on money owed I would be looking to get out of that whole mess asap if I was you, way to risky, especially with that level of exposure

I'm so angry I'm having trouble thinking straight at the moment.

i'll try replying when I've calmed down a bit.

[Not So Wise]

finally the agency returned my calls.

my suspicion was indeed correct. they're not paying me because the primary tier agency haven't paid them - this was admitted openly. breach of contract was also admitted. apparently they are owed approx 90 days worth of money - suddenly this becomes my problem.

I am now considering my options.

Client is probably late paying agency, which can be regular in buisness world (hopefully client not likely to go belly up?)

1st Agency is late paying 2nd agency (either because they are too mickey mouse to have the cash without getting paid or just being prats)

2nd Agency is to mickey mouse to be able to pay you without getting paid first

*sigh* Even if you get paid on money owed I would be looking to get out of that whole mess asap if I was you, way to risky, especially with that level of exposure

[vfr_rider]

Malvolio has already asked but I didn't see an answer, are you a PCG member?

no...!

I'll be joining forthwith. can't be dealing with a mess like this again!