Reply to: Can't give out Rate, Location or Client.

[nomadd]

******* hell! You let yourself be submitted for a job but you dont know the location, client nor the rate?

Nutty as a ******* fruit cake, I'd say. Agents must love you.

Er, English isn't your first language, then?

Read the post you quoted (Hint: no, I didn't let the agent put my cv forward. Quite the opposite, if fact. )

Nomadd

[BolshieBastard]

...but apart from that, everything else is OK.

Just thought I'd come and vent my first bit of "Monday morning talking to an Agent" steam!

Sent cv for a job on Jobserve via Spencer Rose. Just taken call from agent. He refused to say what the rate was, who the client was, and where the job was located (would only give the nearest county!). Also wasn't prepared to send out the "detailed job spec., in my hands right now."

He wanted me to write and send him a letter asking me to "justify" him considering me for this role. Bloody cheek. I pointed out the 15 years of prior experience in the same type of role on the cv I'd just sent him! Seemed reading the cv was too much effort...

In the end, I just told him: "The job will be on Jobserve via 10 different agencies by the end of the day; I'll put my cv forward to one of those, in the hope that they are far more professional and much less deceptive than yourself. Thankyou for you time." And then I put down the phone.

Agents, eh. Make this contracting lark a dream.

Nomadd

******* hell! You let yourself be submitted for a job but you dont know the location, client nor the rate?

Nutty as a ******* fruit cake, I'd say. Agents must love you.

[nomadd]

There are a variety of other reasons, but I hope this gives you an idea. Basically speaking, I think the agent was probably being lazy in this example - but bear in mind that it might be for a whole raft of other reasons, not least to protect his own business.

Have a lovely evening one and all.

TAV

I mentioned on the email I sent to the agent that *I have read the job spec. you posted on Jobserve and my skills match the role listed.*

The skills did match, hence why he bothered to phone. At this point he asked me to highlight those areas on my cv. That seemed a bit strange, as all he had to do was read the summary section on page 1!

Still, patiently, I listed the roles, told him the clients, and pointed them out on the cv. That all just seemed to be too much effort for him. He just insisted that I send *him* - i.e. nothing to do with the client - a letter detailing why *he* - i.e. not the client - should even "consider" me for the role. That was just plain unprofessional rudeness, IMHO; unfortunately, as you suggest, it's becoming par for the course these days.

Obviously at this point I smelled a rat. So, I pressed him for a few more details: rate, location, client, detailed job spec., so "we didn't waste each other's time" He said it was "impossible" to give out such things - even the job spec. - until he'd see my "letter" to him.

At this point I thanked him for his time and put the phone down, stating I'd prefer to pursue the role via a more professional agency.

Still, at least the week can only get better.

Nomadd

[The Agents View]

Several possibilities here - maybe a few things to consider.

The recruitment market is absolutely saturated with cr4p agencies right now - they put no effort into building interim or client relations, and simply wait for job adverts, word of mouth, and naive interims to tell them where the roles are. Ultimately if the agent is any good, he/she should be able to give you a generic summary of the role as follows:

Rough location (is it commutable within an hour or so?)
Ballpark rate (are we talking the same language)
Overview of company activities (Bank, Media company, leisure business etc)
High level overview of the project/programme/need.

One thing to consider though, is that it's not hard to decode these opportunities if too much is revealed (e.g. Insurance, Norwich, Change Programme - Probably Norwich Union. Travel company, Luton - Probably TUI - etc etc).

With so many people competing for roles, sometimes interims can be just as bad as your pimps - giving info to others, applying directly, etc etc.

The other thing that you might want to consider is that whilst the boom times have been here, more and more people who by rights should be in permanent jobs, have decided they fancy a bit of the contract action - This muddies the water for agents and clients alike, and as clientco's have started to realise that they don't need interims in certain roles, they've started to dry up, leaving defiant contractors on the bench because they refuse to take perm jobs. I can confirm that the scrabbling around continues though - one of my colleagues put an ad on the job boards a week ago - he's still getting 25 calls a day about it, and 100 odd CV's sent through - 95% of whom are not even remotely suitable for the role, no matter how you dress them up (I've been considering dressing a few of my contractors up recently - superman, batman, that kind of thing - gives them something to do other than badger me all day long!)

But.... If someone calls you to talk about the role, there has to be some degree of give and take - If you want to check that the person is right for the role, you have to be prepared to listen to where they feel the skills match is - it's just general manners really. Asking for a cover letter is a bit of a lazy cop out.

There are a variety of other reasons, but I hope this gives you an idea. Basically speaking, I think the agent was probably being lazy in this example - but bear in mind that it might be for a whole raft of other reasons, not least to protect his own business.

Have a lovely evening one and all.

TAV

[Menelaus]

At the very real risk of intervening in something here that might well become a flame war I fear that the agent is in the wrong here.

If I were to be on the receiving end of a call that said "I'm not going to tell you anything about a job, but give me a generic cover letter" I suspect that I'd tell the agent in question to do one*.

We are freelancers: by our very nature we provide a high-skill, low-availability product (ourselves) and on that basis the agent shouldn't have considered us to be a generic, amorphous mass.

If someone is coming to us then the idea that we can produce some generic, fawning marketing bollocks is anathema to our very nature.

I pride myself that, if I'm providing a summary to help a media studies graduate try to get their head around PhD pure mathematics materials then I'll tailor it specifically to the role in question. Despite sounding like a long-in-the-tooth old boy here, an agent asked me for a copy of my thesis once - and I sent it to him despite the risk of it blowing his mind.

About 2 hours later I took a call from a suitably frazzled agent asking if I wouldn't mind summarising it.

* this exchange has happened with me in the past.

[nomadd]

Ha Lol Nomadd!

I am not an agent (I was in recruitment for 5 years but more account management than front end pimping but that was back in 1997 to about 2002)

If I was employing people and I asked for a cover letter - and the response I got was similar to the above you would not be on the shortlist - regardless of your skills because your attitude sucks!

Second mindless, rude reply in a row. Well done, you've won a prize.

I'll just respond to your posts from now on by quoting yourself back to you: you are up yourself and your attitude sucks!

Now, see how easy that was?

Nomadd

[Not So Wise]

If I was employing people and I asked for a cover letter - and the response I got was similar to the above you would not be on the shortlist - regardless of your skills because your attitude sucks!

PM, i have a possible job for you:

Country: Not Telling (but is somewhere in or near Germany)
Location: Not telling
Rate: Not telling
Client: Not telling
Description: Account Management

To apply you just need to fill out this form and do a cover letter and i might get back to you

Now honestly what is your response?

a) Tell me to Feck off
b) Complete form/Cover letter

ps: Agency is "employing" nobody, they are just pimps who might or might not have a real client with a read contract lead

[original PM]

Ha Lol Nomadd!

I am not an agent (I was in recruitment for 5 years but more account management than front end pimping but that was back in 1997 to about 2002)

My humble opinion is that any requests for letters, information about yourself and the work you do etc etc etc should be treated the same way that it would be treated by any other company (I asume you run Ltd?) it is a chance to market yourself/your company.

I appreciate that some agents are crap and do not have jobs and seem to be wasting your time but this may just be an opportunity to get your sales literate up to date - and a few covering letters, samples of work done etc etc would be useful to have on your pc in case of times like this.

And if you think about your comments

I pointed out the 15 years of prior experience in the same type of role on the cv I'd just sent him! Seemed reading the cv was too much effort...

If I was employing people and I asked for a cover letter - and the response I got was similar to the above you would not be on the shortlist - regardless of your skills because your attitude sucks!

[nomadd]

maybe you need to be a touch less up yourself?

How long have you been working as an Agent? I've been working as a Contractor for 20 years. Never come across anyone who has accused me of being "up myself". So sorry to disappoint you.

Nomadd

[dx4100]

I would be happy to send a cover letter as long as the agent was giving enough information about the role to make a decision if I was interested in putting the effort in.

Seems pointless to spend time writing a cover letter for a job you have no details on. I would probably just send him the generic one I have always had lying around and see what comes of it.

[Menelaus]

I'm afraid that the older I get (note: not necessarily wiser) the less tolerant of these ******* I am. Could this be correlated?

[weemster]

Interesting one !

Some peoples view is b*ll*x to the agent and other peoples view is whatever is required to get the contract. I suppose the bigger my war chest the more defiant I would be.

[minestrone]

Anyone that tries to get me into a cover letter/skills+time list conversation gets the phone call ended on them.

[weemster]

I think the point was that he never got to see it, despite the agent having it in his hand has he spoke.

Read it again, Yarp !!!

Sorry

[DaveB]

Nomadd - How 'pukka' did the detailed job spec look ?

I think the point was that he never got to see it, despite the agent having it in his hand has he spoke.