Reply to: Starting as a Contractor: any horror stories?

[Green Mango]

Ahhhh spoken like a true contractor. At 45 and after doing this now for over 15 years, I wouldn't dream of going permy. I'd change career first, go build houses or landscaping.

Old contractors don't go permy, they become consultants

Actually they do lots of things when desperate such as : Job benefit centre clerk, kitchen salesman, taxi driver,

[Stan.goodvibes]

To be honest, the most successful contractors I've met - and I'd include myself in that group having survived 20 years outside of permie-dom - are those with a contracting mindset. You've either got that, or you haven't. I guess what that means is you like working outside the corporate system and just concentrate on getting the job done; and once the job is done, you are happy to move on. Very few people think like that, hence why their are so many permies.

Ahhhh spoken like a true contractor. At 45 and after doing this now for over 15 years, I wouldn't dream of going permy. I'd change career first, go build houses or landscaping.

Old contractors don't go permy, they become consultants

[Sundial]

Nope. The rest of us got it right. Its just YOU who messed it up.

HTH

Mebbe true but do you have to be so blunt about it?? *indignantly outraged*

I dunno, and thanks for the responses (to reiterate: I'm not an agent, etc - you lot really ARE suspicious and maybe rightly so but I've never seen an agent ousted 'live' as such and I'm not sure why anyone would think I was one? - it's not like I'm asking anyone where they're based, who their references are and how much lower a rate they'd want).

[joey122]

Travelled round Hungary in '96 with the then girlfriend. Being a bit of a history bore, I insisted on visiting an 18thC (?) fort built on one of Budapest's hills. So we hiked for an hour and when we got there I marvelled at the old design and the shell strikes from when the Ruskies passed through in WW2.
Best of all, a strip bar had been opened in it and the place was full of pics of girls in stocking and suspenders. Was my face
Anyone know if the strip bar is still there?

Yeah - Hungary does have its own way of life

[TinTrump]

Travelled round Hungary in '96 with the then girlfriend. Being a bit of a history bore, I insisted on visiting an 18thC (?) fort built on one of Budapest's hills. So we hiked for an hour and when we got there I marvelled at the old design and the shell strikes from when the Ruskies passed through in WW2.
Best of all, a strip bar had been opened in it and the place was full of pics of girls in stocking and suspenders. Was my face
Anyone know if the strip bar is still there?

[RedTag]

Gotta look out for them tricksy Magyars...

[herman_g]

Oh yes, I neglected to mention the diplomatic part:

Spoke with the Canadian embassy in Budapest ( I am Canadian of British origin ) when all this occured.

The Canadian Minster of Foreign Affairs wrote a letter to the Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs detailing the denial of my various rights during the whole thing and asking how and why this could happen.

They are required by international law to answer the letter within 2 weeks.

5 months later, they have only acknowledged receiving the letter and will answer in due time - due to the complexity of the "investigation".

H

[herman_g]

- do encryption algorithyms for credit cards
- client was in Budapest
- car parked across the street in well-patrolled, heavily cctv'd
"posh mall" parking lot
- had the car in twice the previous week at local Mercedes dealer because of sudden diesel fuel leak
- came back to car with a just-purchased black bag of Dorito chips ( inside a supermarket bag )
- took a brief look underneath car to check if leak repairs still holding up ( was some liquid - water - that I reached under to probe )
- opened the car door, threw in the shopping bag and drove off

The next day the fun began:

- came back to car at the end of the day ( parked in exactly the same place )
- started the car and put it into reverse
- all four doors were opened, two police and their pistols in every door, two behind my car and two about 30 meters back
- they pulled me out of the car and threw me on the floor as the car continued into reverse into somebody elses
- I repeatedly asked them what I did and asked to contact my embassy ( they just laughed and told me "I know what I did" )
- went to the police station, apartment searched ( cops a little shocked about the pictures of my villa in Greece ), back to station and then to jail
- cops had a picture of the laptop thief walking past a CCTV in the direction of my car ( 11 minutes before a picture of me )
- cops don't believe a word about who I am or what I do for a living ( my daily rate is 2 1/2 times his monthly salary )
- claimed a witness saw me reach under my car, retrieve a laptop, put it in my car and drive away
- my one call was to my agent who spent the whole of the next day on the phone tomy embassy
- with the assistance ofmy cell-mate ( spoke about 50 words of english ), demanded to speak to the warden, who contacted my embassy and shortly thereafter informed me the "CPC" ( Chief police commisioner ) was coming to see me
- a hot milf fourty-something hungarian woman in plain clothes came into my cell and introduced herself by first name
- she escorted me back to the police station where I am put into a room until they can verify 100% who I am
- the investigating cops are adament they have the right guy
- the investigating cops go to the client's office and are quite surprised by my dialy rate and the fact my desk has a laptop as well as the other 200 desks in the building
- I am released, client HR manager puts me in contact with the country's number 1 lawyer ( the one the celebrities and politicians use ) who is a former minister of Justice - personally negotiated Hungary's accession to the EU
- Lawyer is a gentleman, tells me putting ONE gun to my head is a crime and tells me we eventually will sue their a**es off
- go meet the mall manager, another gentleman who is shocked police are using guns on his premises
- we go to meet the mall CCTV guys to make sure there is no repeat incident - the two cops coincidentally are there, have captured one image ( exceedingly high quality video ) of the laptop thief removing the laptop from a car. The cops cannot look me in the eyes!
- 5 months later, no charges but still an "active case"
- all CCTV footage is securely locked up in mall manager's safe
- case can remain open for two years pending further "evidence"
- once case is closed, we drag them to human rights tribunal in Strasbourg

[Pogle]

Sir, I think you need to tell us all some of these stories as they sound like they might actually be interesting!

Hmm when I read herman_g's post I was instantly reminded of the Rick Mail 'Lord Flasheart' character in Blackadder goes Forth.

[DSW]

Take it from the man, he knows what he's saying.

18 years in myself. Started in Silicon Valley in 91 ( where and when it seems the whole Indian thing started out ) and have milked every gig it was worth.

Fumbled through languages in foreign countries to purchase groceries until I started to think in those tongues. Ended up leaving fluent and well-respected.

Even was arrested at gunpoint by 12 trigger-happy cops on the way back to my car in Eastern Europe February past ( bizzarly accused of assisting in the theft of a 200 euro laptop, spent a day in prison and hit the former-commies back with full force diplomatically, legally and intellectually - didn't know what hit them in the end ).

Wouldn't do one thing different. Benefitted from it all - personally, emotionally and, best of all financially.

Best of luck to anybody that chooses to do the same ( and has what it takes ). Sincerely.

Sir, I think you need to tell us all some of these stories as they sound like they might actually be interesting!

[gingerjedi]

I started contracting for no other reason than to earn more than twice the equivalent perm role …which was nice.

Now I earn less than a perm due to the frequent 'rests' which have left me with no savings and low self esteem …which isn't very nice.

I’d go perm tomorrow if I could convince a HR manager that I wouldn’t be off if things ever pick up, which I would of course.

[herman_g]

To be honest, the most successful contractors I've met - and I'd include myself in that group having survived 20 years outside of permie-dom - are those with a contracting mindset. You've either got that, or you haven't.

Take it from the man, he knows what he's saying.

18 years in myself. Started in Silicon Valley in 91 ( where and when it seems the whole Indian thing started out ) and have milked every gig it was worth.

Fumbled through languages in foreign countries to purchase groceries until I started to think in those tongues. Ended up leaving fluent and well-respected.

Even was arrested at gunpoint by 12 trigger-happy cops on the way back to my car in Eastern Europe February past ( bizzarly accused of assisting in the theft of a 200 euro laptop, spent a day in prison and hit the former-commies back with full force diplomatically, legally and intellectually - didn't know what hit them in the end ).

Wouldn't do one thing different. Benefitted from it all - personally, emotionally and, best of all financially.

Best of luck to anybody that chooses to do the same ( and has what it takes ). Sincerely.

[NotAllThere]

Certainly the agencies I dealt with pre about '96, were fine. Face to face meetings, sensible margins. Fair negotiation of contracts. Then with the internet, the whole sector boomed, and the sharks got in.

There are some decent agents around.

I can't go permie now. I need the option of 20 weeks holiday a year - finances permitting!

[nomadd]

I guess implicit in what you said is that you're suited to doing this kind of work...not stated but fact. And you have always been organised about it? I'm fine with the work, but the whole attitude/agency aspects gets me confuzzled.

To be honest, the most successful contractors I've met - and I'd include myself in that group having survived 20 years outside of permie-dom - are those with a contracting mindset. You've either got that, or you haven't. I guess what that means is you like working outside the corporate system and just concentrate on getting the job done; and once the job is done, you are happy to move on. Very few people think like that, hence why their are so many permies.

The agency "attitude" thing is a real shame right now. For the first 12 years of my contracting career I never had a single issue with any of the agencies I dealt with. They, in general, were much more professional in those days. You'd hear a few horror stories, but those agencies would quickly get known and you'd just learn to avoid them. In the last year or two, though, I think the tide has reversed completely, and most agents I deal with are at the level of Wide Tie Estate Agents and Dodgy Used-car Salesmen.

My hope is that things improve over the next few years. I think we are in for a rough ride for 2009/2010, but maybe things pick up after that. And I don't just mean the amount of work, I mean the whole contracting business, and the attitudes between clients, agencies and contractors. Maybe I'm dreaming, though? I hope not, as I've still a long way to go before I can afford to retire!

Nomadd

[NotAllThere]

The only mistake I've ever made as a contractor was not playing hardball with the various agencies when I started.

I reckon Sundial is just an agent fishing for leads. Looking for a client, where he plaice a dab hand, after he's stitched them up like a kipper over the margin.

IGMC