Originally posted by nomadd
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Previously on "Weak Substitution and no right of termination"
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Originally posted by icarus View PostI asked the agent about dropping my personal name from the contract, but no dice. The best they will offer is something like "[my name] or another representative agreed in writing".
Taking all your replies into account, I think I will fall back on my primary IR35 defence, namely shovelling most of my earnings into my pension to make myself a less attractive target.
Still, each to his own.
Nomadd
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I asked the agent about dropping my personal name from the contract, but no dice. The best they will offer is something like "[my name] or another representative agreed in writing".
Taking all your replies into account, I think I will fall back on my primary IR35 defence, namely shovelling most of my earnings into my pension to make myself a less attractive target.
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostLeaving because you can't deliver what is required becuase of the client's problems is a different matter and not really subject to notice anyway.
The client? Certainly not: you are just a contractor, so you must be at fault.
The Agent? You must be kidding - they will try to withhold payment, blame you, force you to go back, anything in order to "protect" their client (in other words, "get their money".)
The one thing I've learnt in my years of contracting is that in those rare situations when things do turn bad, you are on your own as a contractor. Hence I prefer a contract with a clean "get out" clause - just in case I ever need it!
Cheers,
Nomadd
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The best answer I've seen came from Accountax, that zero notice periods are a useful IR35 pointer - permies can't have them, and it kills one element of MOO - but not that good in business terms. Best compromise is a long on on your side and a short one on theirs.
That said, we're not here to like the client, but to deliver things. Walking away because you're not happy is pathetic. Leaving because you can't deliver what is required becuase of the client's problems is a different matter and not really subject to notice anyway.
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and anyway lets be honest
if you contract does not accurately reflect your working conditions it ain't worth the paper it is written on.
any amiguiaty and HMRC will check your actual working practices and relationship with the client and make a decision based on that
probably.
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostYour decision. Many qualified experts would appear to disagree...
There is no "expert" advice surrounding IR35; that's the whole problem with it - it's so deliberately vague.
As I say, I do it (notice clause) for more than IR35 reasons. The thought that I can get out if the client turns out to be a first class a-hole means a lot to me. Twenty years of contracting have taught me that lesson.
Nomadd
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostYour decision. Many qualified experts would appear to disagree...
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I'll go against the flow and say I always, always *insist* on even-handed notice periods
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Originally posted by icarus View PostI'm reviewing my new contract and there are a couple of clauses that make me very nervous about IR35:
1. "The Consultant: [My name] or any other consultant as agreed in writing by [Agency]"
The agency say that this is a satisfactory substitution clause, but it looks a bit weak to me.
2. "The Supplier does not have the right to terminate this agreement"
Wow - even an ordinary employee has the right to quit their job. I've never seen a clause like this before.
My accountant calls it "borderline". Anyone have any thoughts?
Point 2: I'll go against the flow and say I always, always *insist* on even-handed notice periods; usually 4 weeks either way. I never accept contracts with no notice clauses, having had a couple of "nightmare" contracts in the past. The master-servant implications of one-sided clauses also bother me as regards IR35. But, as others have said, you can read it BOTH ways, and this issue on it's own is not enough to determine IR35 status.
Nomadd
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostNonsense. Look at it form the client's viewpoint. He's paying you to deliver a known piece of work. How delighted would he be if you wander off halfway through? Why should he make it easy for you to do so? Why would the agency voluntarily help you terminte a live contract that's earning them money? (hint: agents absolutely hate contractors who bail part way through a contract). If you absolutely have to get out early (it happens) then first find someone to do the work for you, that's what your RoS clause is for.
You want to be a contractor, behave like one.
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Originally posted by icarus View PostOriginally posted by malvolio View PostYou want to be a contractor, behave like one.
Thanks for your advice.
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[QUOTE=malvolio;894129]You want to be a contractor, behave like one.[QUOTE]
I just want an IR35-compliant contract so I can get to work. All my other contracts have had notice periods and my accountant said that notice periods were the norm. If a No Termination clause makes my contract IR35 stronger then I say bring it on!
Thanks for your advice.
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Originally posted by icarus View PostThanks for your reply. Does this mean that "The Supplier does not have the right to terminate this agreement" is acceptable as long as there is a clause like "the Supplier has the right to ask the agency to terminate"? Doesn't the contract need to be clear that I can somehow decide to quit? Otherwise it looks like total control of my company by the agency.
You want to be a contractor, behave like one.
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Originally posted by pmeswani View PostTo have a non-supplier-termination clause in a contract is not unusual. If there is a clause in the contract that allows the agency to terminate the contract, then all you need to do is to pick up the dog and bone and ask the agency to terminate. Give them a reason to end your contract.
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