Contract but no contract....

[jmo21]

There are limited long term benefits in arguing that you have the right to do this, as although legally they may have no rights to insist you are on site they simply wont renew you if they are not happy.

hmm.... I'm not sure "legally" comes into it.

They are employing your company to do a job. If they insist it's onsite, either do it, or quit.

Whether it is stupid to force you to do this is a different question, but it's not illegal to force you to do this.

[PhilAtBFCA]

Contract or No Contract

scooterscot

I can see why in many ways not having a contract is great. "Standard B2B stuff" In part I agree, but i think if IR35 is a concern, which I believe it is, then have a contract for sure.

the reason behind this is that in defending your IR35 position the contract is looked at first. in the absence of a written contract then a tribunal judge will create the picture of what the written contract would have said according to your working conditions.

there are too many things to go wrong in a case like this without a contract and I think it weakens your position.

Not withstanding that, you do have a contract anyway. its implied by the conditions you work under. It may not be written but it is implied.

As a compromise, maybe you could write to your client detailing your undersatnding of the contract you have with them to supply services. If there is anything that they dont like they can respond to, or you could agree a written contract so that it is more clear.

Phil

[MonzaMike]

Working Off Site

It should really come down to whether it can be clearly demonstrated that you have done the work you are required to do whether thats on-site or not.

How easily you can do this depends on the nature of the work involved. If you need to work closely with other people then it's harder to do this remotely.

Mostly it is about trust. I've worked for some line managers that don't mind the odd day, and others who want you there every day. Strangely enough it's easier to be off site when there is a lot happening on a project, as opposed to quiet periods. (Clearer what work you have done)

There are limited long term benefits in arguing that you have the right to do this, as although legally they may have no rights to insist you are on site they simply wont renew you if they are not happy.

Sometimes it may just require you to state clearly what you have done each day you weren't on site. This makes it easier for your manager to respond to questions from their boss as to what you are up to.

[scooterscot]

So on what grounds can the client request that I remain on-site to deliver the work?

I've stayed off-site for a couple of days perhaps 3 in a row, they moaned.

Partly the expressed concern what other contractors would think, I told them that's nothing to do with me.

But also they could not understand how I could do the work remotely, partly which is because I believe they do not know how to conduct the analysis judging the previous internal effort.

However I think the biggest one is trust despite the on-site manager telling me a number of times yesterday that he does trust me.

I really can not be bother with business and it's complex threads, i just would like to get on with the job sometimes....

[DaveB]

Even if the PO is from the agent and not the client directly?

I've been at my client to sign my services agreement, although I've taken my foot off the accelerator in case I'm winding them up.

Yep, doesnt matter who the end client is, your Ltd's customer is the agency. Your Ltd is supplying them with services as per the relevent PO. They are subcontracting your Ltd to full fiill their cutomers requirements.

[scooterscot]

Personally I would never have more than 1 unpaid invoice open at any time.

You bet. When the last day of the month comes to pass that invoice is in the post. Don't fancy, at worst, working 5 weeks for free -

[scooterscot]

Bloody brilliant from an IR35 perspective. No middle man, no dodgy contractual clauses involving substitution, working hours or timesheets. The customer is purchasing services from your Ltd via a PO. Simple B2B stuff.

Even if the PO is from the agent and not the client directly?

I've been at my client to sign my services agreement, although I've taken my foot off the accelerator in case I'm winding them up.

[BrilloPad]

Personally I would never have more than 1 unpaid invoice open at any time.

[DaveB]

Bloody brilliant from an IR35 perspective. No middle man, no dodgy contractual clauses involving substitution, working hours or timesheets. The customer is purchasing services from your Ltd via a PO. Simple B2B stuff.

[scooterscot]

Not an extension. There was never a contract.

[BrilloPad]

Is this an extension with no contract? i.e. was there ever a contract?

[scooterscot]

I've on a job getting paid no problems. Except I don't have a contract.

The agency provided me with a P/O instead claiming it's in my interest from a tax perspective.

Fine as that may be, I'm not bound by any of the usual conditions a contract would provide to me or the client. However as long as I'm getting paid, who cares?

What are my risks?
Should I insist the client or agent sign my services agreement?