Reply to: Who owes me the money- Advice needed urgently

[TykeMerc]

Well just wanted to let all you helpful folks here know what has happened.

I really attempted to keep the lines of communication open with the ClientCo and the Agent. Which I think I managed to do quiet successfully. I talked through their perceived issues (mostly imaginary and lack of in-house skills) whilst informing them that I was well versed in my company's position and what the next steps would be in a legal sense if my timesheet/invoice was not honoured (thanks to all at CUK for helping with this).

Anyhow, just found out that they have agreed to pay the invoice and have signed the TS.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice.

And remember keep talking but carry a big stick.

BB

Entirely the right approach tbh. Communicate until all options are exhausted then and only then do you resort to the legals. Part of that communication is a LOT easier if you know the legals first of course

[NotAllThere]

Good stuff. Thanks for reporting back.

[BlackenedBiker]

An Update

Well just wanted to let all you helpful folks here know what has happened.

I really attempted to keep the lines of communication open with the ClientCo and the Agent. Which I think I managed to do quiet successfully. I talked through their perceived issues (mostly imaginary and lack of in-house skills) whilst informing them that I was well versed in my company's position and what the next steps would be in a legal sense if my timesheet/invoice was not honoured (thanks to all at CUK for helping with this).

Anyhow, just found out that they have agreed to pay the invoice and have signed the TS.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice.

And remember keep talking but carry a big stick.

BB

[Epiphone]

Don't forget if you're opted in then the agency can't refuse to pay if you don't have a signed timesheet.

I'm going through the same process at the moment, issue court action on Monday.

[NotAllThere]

Alongside any other action - issue an invoice to the agency. If they don't pay within the agreed period, send a copy of the invoice giving 7 days to pay. If they don't pay, send another copy of the invoice, again giving 7 days to pay. If they still don't pay, start the small claims court proceedings (which can be done online).

The point is to start dunning as soon as you can, and show you've behaved reasonable at all times. Don't forget to add admin costs and interest (Read www.payontime.co.uk.) from the day payment is late.

Don't get emotionally involved. You are simply going through the necessary process that it is your duty as company director to follow. As far as you are concerned the debt is a legal debt, they MUST pay, regardless of timesheet.

Gather evidence that shows the client has always been satisfied with the work. Strictly, the agency should pay you, and sue the client for their debt. But if you can scare the client into signing, then that will give the quickest result.

[VectraMan]

I think it might have to be 3k. The OP said it's 1k. Issuing a winding up order is not a simple process, there a bunch of things need to be done first (basically prove the debt).

For starters you need to invoice the agent and give them time to pay. If they don't, then you can start to look at legal action. There are solicitors that will send a letter for a couple of quid, or even free. You're not going to get a winding up order granted if you haven't even tried to recover the money via normal means.

The client are clearly trying it on, and the agent are hoping to fob you off so they don't get stuck in the middle either losing money or potentially losing a client. But that's what agents are for. Don't let them get away with it.

[ASB]

How much is the debt for? Can you issue a winding up order?

I think it might have to be 3k. The OP said it's 1k. Issuing a winding up order is not a simple process, there a bunch of things need to be done first (basically prove the debt).

[TykeMerc]

I feel that I still need more advice on this issue.

The amount owed is about £1000, so not massive, just very annoying since I went out of my way to help the company in very difficult personal time for my family.

What I need to know is:

1: Should I contact the company directly
2: What is the line that I should give to the agents.
3: Should I involve lawyers in this from the getgo (considering the amount)
4: Can I pursue this though the small claims court independently (without a lawyer to reduce cost)
5: When is the right time to name and shame the ClientCo and Agency (and should I do this)

1. It depends on your relationship with the client, if the person who should sign off your timesheet is reasonable/fair yes, but if they're acting like you smell bad then don't. Your contract is with the agency.
2. Tell them (the Agency) that you intend to pursue the debt forthwith, they will trot out that your last timesheet isn't signed (which is a genuine issue), but you can use the "if my work wasn't up to standard why did they offer an extension?" approach.
3. Probably not unless you feel you need a representative to do your reasoned arguing, the amount owed is too small really.
4. Yes, the Small Claims Court is ideal for a £1k debt, it's a matter of filling out a simple form you can get at the court (online too I believe).
5. I wouldn't as it could be seen as libel and used against you if it's found by agent or client.

Point 2 is the tricky one if you're not good at commercial negotiation, obviously there's a lot more to argue over than 1 point.

[BrilloPad]

How much is the debt for? Can you issue a winding up order?

[Menelaus]

I feel that I still need more advice on this issue.

The amount owed is about £1000, so not massive, just very annoying since I went out of my way to help the company in very difficult personal time for my family.

What I need to know is:

1: Should I contact the company directly
2: What is the line that I should give to the agents.
3: Should I involve lawyers in this from the getgo (considering the amount)
4: Can I pursue this though the small claims court independently (without a lawyer to reduce cost)
5: When is the right time to name and shame the ClientCo and Agency (and should I do this)

1. Yes - their signing the timesheet for you and getting it to the agent (assuming that they haven't done so already and the agent are handing you a large steaming pile of...) is the key to this being sorted

2. Line for agents is contract existed, you've done your part, you expect to be paid for it, failure to do so will in the end cost them more in lost time as well as court fees and interest and the reputational damage to be had from naming and shaming

3. Interesting question: if you think a bit of "bluster" will do the trick then no; if not then yes - although for a small claim (see 4., below) it may be unnecessary

4. Yes - Google MoneyClaimOnline and you can do the whole thing on line without having to go down to your local County Court

5. Not sure - that's between you and your conscience.

[BlackenedBiker]

I feel that I still need more advice on this issue.

The amount owed is about £1000, so not massive, just very annoying since I went out of my way to help the company in very difficult personal time for my family.

What I need to know is:

1: Should I contact the company directly
2: What is the line that I should give to the agents.
3: Should I involve lawyers in this from the getgo (considering the amount)
4: Can I pursue this though the small claims court independently (without a lawyer to reduce cost)
5: When is the right time to name and shame the ClientCo and Agency (and should I do this)

[pzz76077]

Seems like a standard offer and acceptance transaction under contract law.

The client co via the agency have offered you x pounds for x work and you have accepted.

The contract has now come to a natural end and the final payment is due. Unless client co can prove that the goods or service provided by you are substandard in some way then they are contractually obliged to pay the agency so that the agent can pay you. Using a refusal to sign a time sheet to frustrate payment would never stand up in court on its own.

It sounds to me more like the client co are hacked off that you have not renewed your contract (that you have chosen to do without malice to the client co and for personal reasons) and are not paying for this reason.

Start charging them interest on unpaid fees due as a starter and then advise them that the lack of payment will cost them x pounds extra in legal fees as follow up.

Would also advise you check the financial health of your agency as if they go bust you will have lost all chance of easily recovering your money.

PZZ

[BlackenedBiker]

Was your final timesheet authorised by the client? If you have an authorised timesheet the agency should pay up as the client shouldn't have authorised it if they weren't happy with your work. Its the clients problem if they chose not to use the work you did.

Sorry, I'm no expert on getting extracting money from agencies in these circumstances. I'm sure someone will be along with some advice for you.

Good luck.

I sent the timesheet to the agent as I have little time at the moment due to personal circumstances. I think that I will call the ClientCo tomorrow and discuss with them.

At the moment the agent is informing me that the clientco is refusing to sign the timesheet.

So what if they refuse to sign???? Is it straight to the courts. And is that worth it (can I go to the small claims court????).

[TykeMerc]

Blackened Biker did they sign the timesheet you said you've put in?

Since they offered an extension do you have evidence of that offer? That evidence would be pretty telling in any legal battle that your work was of an acceptable quality.

The client deciding to not use the project that they've already part paid for is their choice and it doesn't have any relevance to the fact that they contracted you to deliver the code which you state you've delivered.

It sounds like a clear case of them trying to wriggle out of a payment and you've got better than reasonable grounds to pursue the final payment.

The people you should chase are the Agents as it's them that contracted you not the end client. If the Agents get paid or not isn't your concern, it's them that owe you the money according to your contract and especially so if your final timesheet has been signed off by the end client.

[dropcliffsnotbombs]

Was your final timesheet authorised by the client? If you have an authorised timesheet the agency should pay up as the client shouldn't have authorised it if they weren't happy with your work. Its the clients problem if they chose not to use the work you did.

Sorry, I'm no expert on getting extracting money from agencies in these circumstances. I'm sure someone will be along with some advice for you.

Good luck.