Netherlands

[herman_g]

Amsterdam coffee shops!

Did a year there back in '96 - at the stock exchange.

My colleagues were all too busy drinking those little glasses of Heinekin with the investment banking crowd to even notice my coffee breaks. My boss ( we were sharing a houseboat on Brauersgracht - some days I wondered if he was still alive when I left for work ) missed far more billable days than me.

Coffee in the morning on the way to work. Coffee at about 10:00 a.m., lunchtime, afternoon coffee and several coffee breaks for the late night bug-fixing.

Definitely some of my best quality coding ever ( I know it doesn't work that way for everyone )!

[bradleylloyd]

LTD In the Netherlands

I am currently working in the Netherlands for an english LTD subcontracting to a dutch company and being payed through an umberella company.

On a new contract the dutch company has offered me a direct rate with them, however for this I would have to work through my own VAT registered LTD (which I have)

My hourly rate would effectively double, however I am unsure how I would need to operate in order to be compliant with the dutch tax system.

If anybody has any advice, or indeed an accountant with this area of expertise, i would be much obliged.

[Elevator_Music]

Coffee shops indeed. A bit of personality dis-order & paranoia the next day is just the ticket to get through boring meetings...

Jokes aside, when I was there they had just passed the smoking ban legislation, so all those smoking had to be outside. Coffee shop owners were mightily hacked off - reckoned they would all be out of business by the end of the year.

[ribble]

First rule of coffeeshops - we don't talk about coffeeshops

Why not? I was refering to a nice cup of afternoon coffee anyhow.

[Mich the Tester]

I've been in the Netherlands for 15 years and I've never been in a coffeeshop. Not my drug of choice; red wine for me.

[ace00]

Not to mention the coffeshops .....

First rule of coffeeshops - we don't talk about coffeeshops

[ribble]

I worked in Amsterdam last year. Was when Euro 2008 was on and it was one of the best Summers of my life. Beers in Rembrant square after work, sunshine and plenty of tourist bars to make you think you were on holiday. Result

Not to mention the coffeshops .....

[Elevator_Music]

I worked in Amsterdam last year. Was when Euro 2008 was on and it was one of the best Summers of my life. Beers in Rembrant square after work, sunshine and plenty of tourist bars to make you think you were on holiday. Result

[Mich the Tester]

Mmm, I know the market is bad, but I would personally not go below 60 for a non-junior test or dev role. For more senior roles (such as senior testmanagement) I still believe 75+ is achievable. Bear in mind taxes in Holland are probably higher than you are used to. There's plenty of information about working and taxation in Holland on this site, which I trust you'll be able to find.

60 to 65 is probably about right in NL right now. Don't worry about taxes; yes they're high, but only if you make a hefty profit. Seeing as you can deduct lots of things from tax and pay for hotels, meals, transport, training, PCs and so on from your revenues, i.e. the company's before tax income, you'll find that tax is actually quite light. My accountant calls me in each september to plan my expenditure with a view to avoiding higher rate tax; in a good year you might see me in the Amstel hotel during the last couple of months of the year, just bumping up my business expenses to avoid too much profit. The people who pay high taxes in NL are the wageslaves. Make sure you have a Dutch 'AA' certified accountant; not cheap (about 2000e per year for all bookkeeping and reporting), but their advice and help will save you more than they cost. I'd recommend http://www.gibogroep.nl/GB/tabid/1532/Default.aspx They're good with small businesses. Do not try to deal with the Dutch Tax office yourself; use your AA certified accountant. Dutch tax inspectors behave like agents of Soviet politburo toward taxpayers, but they´re nice to accountants because most of them are hoping to get a very highly paid job (>120.000 euros p.a.) at an accountancy practice providing tax advice. One good thing about living in a high tax environment is that the accountants are excellent.

[XperTest]

Mmm, I know the market is bad, but I would personally not go below 60 for a non-junior test or dev role. For more senior roles (such as senior testmanagement) I still believe 75+ is achievable. Bear in mind taxes in Holland are probably higher than you are used to. There's plenty of information about working and taxation in Holland on this site, which I trust you'll be able to find.

[TheRefactornator]

What field? 50 sounds a bit on the low side, even for these grim times..

It's software design and development in a couple of niche languages and also design documentation. There is also a testing aspect to the role after the coding part of the lifecycle is complete. There's nothing too difficult about it for someone with the right skills but that's my reason for asking for a ballpark figure for market rate in the Netherlands.

If €50 is low, is €60 reasonable? I do know for a fact someone has already quoted €60 and been rejected on cost alone. The client has also rejected the option for flight and accomodation expenses to be included.

It's early days but at this stage others have gone in quoting the €40-€45 range so my rate is high in relation to these! It might not even get going for me on that basis.

[XperTest]

What field? 50 sounds a bit on the low side, even for these grim times..

[TheRefactornator]

That ol' market rate..I might be able to extract EUR 50 p/h out of this if it comes off which is workable for me but I'm wondering if anyone knows a roundabout figure for market rate for a software developer in the euro zone at the moment? This particular contract is a bit niche but probably not so niche that it will push to +EUR 60 p/h.