Reply to: The Spring group (aka Hyphen) - AVOID IF YOU CAN

[TheFaQQer]

IT CONTRACTORS

...

Yes, there is a conspiracy between HYPHEN and LLOYDS against the small contractor.

I'd be incredibly wary of publishing an internal (and probably client confidential) document on an open forum. Wouldn't want them tracking you down and suing for breach of confidence, would we?

[stek]

IT CONTRACTORS

REQUIREMENTS

NEW HIRES
- Day rates will be strictly guided by the rate card
- For engagements with a planned tenure of less than 6 months, agreement must be concluded with the candidate at the time of hire that any extension beyond 6 months, irrespective of any change in role, will only be granted on the basis of a 10% reduction in daily rate

- For engagements with a planned tenure of 6 months or more HYPHEN will adjust the sourcing rate to be 10% below the rate card ... For longer tenures, a greater deduction should be considered.

INCUMBENT CONTRACTORS
- Any extension beyond the current planned engagement expiry date will be undertaken only on the basis that a 10% reduction in day rate applied for the extended tenure

Process

The existing approval and recruitment process using the people click system will engage withe the HYPHEN managed service for submission of requests to remain in force.

For new hires, of over 6 months, HYPHEN will set the rate card 10% below normal. For extensions, again, the service desk will advise candidates following approval that the extension will be subject to rate reduction.

Exceptions
Where the individual declines the reduction, or the business defines the individuals role as sufficiently critical to warrant not applying the reduction, an exception form must be completed. Full details must be included to allow authorising parties to make a valid and robust judgement on the rational for exemption. The hiring manager, the HR rep, the directorate head and the function must approve the exemption. Thereafter it will form part of the submission through the cost management unit process for final evaluation by cost forum..

As contractors are sourced through an agency, only the agency should have discussions with the individuals regarding their pay rates.

Sufficient time must be allowed to progress these approval stages, without which it is not permitted to onboard the contractor or to retain them in the business. The HYPHEN dek will continue to ussue reminders prior to scheduled engagement expiry.

Local review and approval processes will be implemented however the principles of rate reduction programn and the absolute requirement for exemptions to be sanctioned by cost forum will not vary.

IN FLIGHT APPROVALS
As there are requests for new hires and extensions in hand, please note that

- Contractor new hired and extensions for august, agreed through Cost board, will be unaffected and will proceed without application of reduction at this time
- All new hires initiated from 9th august and not previously approved by cost board will be subject to the rate reduction process
- All extensions due for Sept onwards, regardless of whether they have been approved by cost board or not, that have not already completed with the supplier / contractor will be subject to rate reduction (unless approved through the exceptions process)


Yes, there is a conspiracy between HYPHEN and LLOYDS against the small contractor.

Yawn....

[en184]

Full text of hires and extension process hyphen / lloyds

IT CONTRACTORS

REQUIREMENTS

NEW HIRES
- Day rates will be strictly guided by the rate card
- For engagements with a planned tenure of less than 6 months, agreement must be concluded with the candidate at the time of hire that any extension beyond 6 months, irrespective of any change in role, will only be granted on the basis of a 10% reduction in daily rate

- For engagements with a planned tenure of 6 months or more HYPHEN will adjust the sourcing rate to be 10% below the rate card ... For longer tenures, a greater deduction should be considered.

INCUMBENT CONTRACTORS
- Any extension beyond the current planned engagement expiry date will be undertaken only on the basis that a 10% reduction in day rate applied for the extended tenure

Process

The existing approval and recruitment process using the people click system will engage withe the HYPHEN managed service for submission of requests to remain in force.

For new hires, of over 6 months, HYPHEN will set the rate card 10% below normal. For extensions, again, the service desk will advise candidates following approval that the extension will be subject to rate reduction.

Exceptions
Where the individual declines the reduction, or the business defines the individuals role as sufficiently critical to warrant not applying the reduction, an exception form must be completed. Full details must be included to allow authorising parties to make a valid and robust judgement on the rational for exemption. The hiring manager, the HR rep, the directorate head and the function must approve the exemption. Thereafter it will form part of the submission through the cost management unit process for final evaluation by cost forum..

As contractors are sourced through an agency, only the agency should have discussions with the individuals regarding their pay rates.

Sufficient time must be allowed to progress these approval stages, without which it is not permitted to onboard the contractor or to retain them in the business. The HYPHEN dek will continue to ussue reminders prior to scheduled engagement expiry.

Local review and approval processes will be implemented however the principles of rate reduction programn and the absolute requirement for exemptions to be sanctioned by cost forum will not vary.

IN FLIGHT APPROVALS
As there are requests for new hires and extensions in hand, please note that

- Contractor new hired and extensions for august, agreed through Cost board, will be unaffected and will proceed without application of reduction at this time
- All new hires initiated from 9th august and not previously approved by cost board will be subject to the rate reduction process
- All extensions due for Sept onwards, regardless of whether they have been approved by cost board or not, that have not already completed with the supplier / contractor will be subject to rate reduction (unless approved through the exceptions process)


Yes, there is a conspiracy between HYPHEN and LLOYDS against the small contractor.

[Wanderer]

For engagements with a planned tenure of less than 6 months, agreement must be concluded with the candidate at time of hire that any extension beyond 6 months will only be granted on the basis of a 10% reduction

Strangely, the agency "forgets" to tell the contractor about the 10% pay cut at 6 months until the last minute....

[en184]

Hyphen and Lloyds agreed internal policy -

For engagements with a planned tenure of less than 6 months, agreement must be concluded with the candidate at time of hire that any extension beyond 6 months will only be granted on the basis of a 10% reduction

For engagements with a planned tenure of above six months or more, HYPHEN will adjust the sourcing rate to be 10% below the rate card.... For longer tenures, a greater reduction should be considered.

For extensions, HYPHEN will advise candidates following approval about the 10% rate reduction.

Exceptions
Critical contractors..

[Taita]

I work for Spring and support the website in question. I cannot comment on the reasoning behind why you were on a particular timesheet frequencies or timesheet types as there a few different types. One being the complete on-line preferred solution but some clients prefer the printing out, signing it and then having it faxed back in method.

With regards to your comments on the site being down for some time due to a “virus” I would have to completely disagree with you here. The website has not been down during work hours for the last 7 years I have been responsible for the support it. We only down the site for maintenance out of working hours and always give notice of this outage. We have NEVER had a “virus” on it.

Your defence of your firm is honourable. However, like the senior executives of Santander, it is unlikely that you have experienced your system as a client or a contractor. Sadly, as one that has (both) I have to say you are over reliant on automation; there is a Spring/Hays/Matrix 'neutral/master' vendor mentality that suggests you do not actually care about customer satisfaction so long as there is another customer in the wings; the majority of any problems arising are handled in a rough and off-hand manner. Instead of defending the company somebody should be taking a long hard look at the complaints and wondering why there are so many dissatisfied contractors out there.

We love to moan, I know, but some of these comments seem much more than a contractor's rant. I dare you to do a customer satisfaction survey across your entire contractor base AND publish the results here.

[TheFaQQer]

Seriously dude, we're all disguised permies on the treadmill.

Speak for yourself.

Ever invoked the substitution clause?

Yes - what's your point?

[en184]

Name and shame

No it isn't. The OP is crying on multiple threads naming his agent and complaining. That is not business at all. Dealing with it in a business like way as you said above is business.

Name and shame... It will help alot other contractors make decisions.

[jonathanOnshore2010]

Sounds like you're a disguised permie to me.

Seriously dude, we're all disguised permies on the treadmill. Ever invoked the substitution clause? Even if you have a ltd co and some vista print business cards, face the fact that you're just a (hopefully) higher paid wage slave with a line manager but a shorter light at the end of the tunnel... welcome to disguised slavery.

[northernladuk]

No it's not, it's just business. They want to play hard ball then you play them at the same game. It was THEM that started it by terminating the contract, don't forget. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you compromise.

If a business tries to cut costs by renegotiating their suppliers (eg contractors) then they've got to expect that there will be fight back sometimes. I've had one of these "across the board" rate cuts come my way and I fought them off but the mistake I made was dealing with the agency in the first instance. You've got to go straight to your client contact and fight the case out with them. The agency droid you deal with has no sway over the process whatsoever and doesn't give a tulip either. They are just doing what some numbskull in procurement at the client told them to do.

No it isn't. The OP is crying on multiple threads naming his agent and complaining. That is not business at all. Dealing with it in a business like way as you said above is business.

[BolshieBastard]

Was contacted by this lot regarding a role. After speaking to the drone the account manager phoned me to discuss. Said they'll submit me for the role.

Later that day agency b phones about the same role. Sorry, already submitted I said. Who by? So I told them.

Agency b phoned back 5 mins later claiming original agent not on PSL did I want them to check and submit me instead?

Told them no. I know it gets messy if 2 agencies start getting involved and besides, Im not arsed about the job as its ******* miles away! Dont really know why I agreed to be submitted in the first place!

But, the major problem I see nowadays is these conglomerate agencies who trade under different names makes it very hard to steer clear of the ones you dont trust \ have time for.

[en184]

Hyphens own words

No, they aren't.

Our Employed Consultant Track Record | hyphen


• After initial 10% reduction to all contractor charges ECM was able to provide a further 17% cost saving across bench
....

[Wanderer]

The weird.. and very sad thing about this is. By throwing your teddy out of the cot and walking out of a role in to nothing just because you are mad might actually mean you avoid getting your rate cut. The method of going about it was highly questionable though.

No it's not, it's just business. They want to play hard ball then you play them at the same game. It was THEM that started it by terminating the contract, don't forget. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you compromise.

If a business tries to cut costs by renegotiating their suppliers (eg contractors) then they've got to expect that there will be fight back sometimes. I've had one of these "across the board" rate cuts come my way and I fought them off but the mistake I made was dealing with the agency in the first instance. You've got to go straight to your client contact and fight the case out with them. The agency droid you deal with has no sway over the process whatsoever and doesn't give a tulip either. They are just doing what some numbskull in procurement at the client told them to do.

[TheFaQQer]

I hit reject, and brought up the subject with my boss and line manager immediately, informing them, I will leave and they can look for a replacement from various consultancies.. After 1 hour, I got a text instructing me to reject, and that the issue will be escalated..

Sounds like you're a disguised permie to me.

If the client is enforcing a rate, then blame the client. The agency are passing on the cut that the client is forcing on them.

[perplexed]

The weird.. and very sad thing about this is. By throwing your teddy out of the cot and walking out of a role in to nothing just because you are mad might actually mean you avoid getting your rate cut. The method of going about it was highly questionable though.

Or is he so mad he imagined that sequence?

I've used Hyphen in the past. Got paid on time, but I'd not want to use them again. Nothing tangible, just got that old gut feeling when dealing with them.

The end client I was with, well, they were very much deeply in bed with Hyphen. Hence, even more than normal, if there was a contract dispute, it would be pointless even trying to raise things with Hyphen on an "off the cuff" manner.

There was much chortlingwhen a Hyphen boss on site was hassling a contractor over an issue raised by the client. Us smokers witnessed it. Hyphen guy insistent the client's reading of a contract issue was 100% correct. Contrator pointed out it was contradictory to the contract, had his contract, badgered Hyphen guy to point out precisely where in the contract the client's claim was present or substantiated.

This went on for fifteen minutes; Hyphen guy looking on verge of heart attack, contractor laughing more and more. Contractor then loudly stated he was thus invoking his notice period as per contract and may have to be off sick with a stress related illness, the stress being caused by Hyphen.

Wish I knew how it ended up - rumour was the guy left, got higher paid gig elsewhere, client not happy as they wanted to retain him.