Reply to: Seen a role but want to avoid the agent

[Ivor Bigun]

Heh heh he - DA, don't worry, there will always be a need for agents as middle men brokers.

I will watch this one unfold with interest.
What makes you think that you will earn more if you go direct?

Of course, the contractor will be paid more - we all know what the rates should be anyway!

.....and if the client makes the savings (which often they do) how are you going to cope with the payroll system. Do you really think that they are going to bother to call you back?

Same as an any agent would do - get set up as a vendor.

Anyway, another tip for those that would like to go direct but are scared of doing so - SCHMOOZE....
Find some excuse to get to know the payroll clerks - Canteen or go to office with "reasonable" question. Always be personable, humble and friendly. Aim to be "cute" to the girls...flirting is dangerous - unless you know how to office flirt (i.e. not obvious) - don't.

Anyway, once you've got a name, you can always phone up "Hey xxx, can my invoices be paid this month?" Don't do this with the purchasing manager though.
However, if you can establish a friendship with the purchasing manager as well, you're ticking more boxes.

Long term contracts are sustained by making the least enemies you can in the hiring / paying process.

[bobspud]

So the IT Director emails me today and has forwarded my CV to the hiring manager. They even cc'd in the person who will review my CV - nice!

Watch out pimps, contractors can find a back door.....

Are you watching this with interest dodgyagent?

Get in there

[virtualm]

So the IT Director emails me today and has forwarded my CV to the hiring manager. They even cc'd in the person who will review my CV - nice!

Watch out pimps, contractors can find a back door.....

Are you watching this with interest dodgyagent?

[bombaycat]

What? Call backs like agents? I'm sick of the band of snot nosed weasels that now work in this industry.. If the some of the dickheads that phone me are the same guys employed to talk to the end clients it wont be too long before the big agencies are having a real epiphany...

It seems to me that the best of the Old Skool agents have ran away screaming by now leaving the ex double glazing salesmen to word search CV's...

While I have been on the bench I have spent time getting back in touch with old colleagues that I liked working with. The general feeling is that the agents don't do the job properly any more.
Agents used to be able to say to clients "Yes I have a guy that would fit that role for you. I had a beer with him last week... He comes free soon... Yes he would be interested in coming to your company because I dropped the name into a conversation we had and the fit looks good...."
Today a hiring manager gets a set of CVs that were based on a keyword search. The chaps concerned will be the cheapest guys, and if the manager is lucky, the agent has spent a few minutes talking to the guys when they submitted the CV...

Would any of those CV's (or the agent) win work against the CV of a guy who is recommended from within the project?

WHS

[virtualm]

And that above is why I try to only use two or three agents in the business.

You must be in a very niche market, I'd be lucky if the pimps I've worked with in the past ever find me a new contract (or ever hear from them again). Shame really as these were the ones who were reliable and offered great rates.

And the modern pimps are the ones buggering up the contractors market... it's interesting that so many of you guys share the same opinion as me.

What winds me up is the lack of info pimps have in terms of job spec and expect you to agree a rate up front before they will put your CV forward, and that is unprofessional.

Note to mods - can we have a new sticky titled along the lines of "Having to commit to a day rate before CV being forwarded to Client Co" - I think it will make an interesting thread in the current market.

[Svalbaard]

Just to add my two pennies worth...

I had a similar (almost) experience with a role for Norwich Union in Chandlers Ford. My CV was an exact match for the role gained within a similar companies. My location was good and the rate was agreeable also.

I phoned the agency rather than sending my CV but then followed it up with a copy of my CV. They did explain the role etc. but then said that they would not look at my CV because the girl that was dealing with the specific role was on holiday, even though the closing date for applications was that very day.

Cue big argument and some bad language from my part.

In the end I called NU directly and spoke to their HR department. I mentioned that the agency in question were being obtuse and mentioned concepts such as professionalism, crap service, preferred supplier etc. and they were very helpful to the point that they said they would inform the hiring manager and speak to the agency from their end, and that I should go back to them from mine stating that I had spoken to them and that as a client, they would not look very kindly upon that practice. So I did.

In the end though, nothing did ever come of it and I doubt NU ever did speak to the agency - but doing it made me feel better knowing that I had pursued it.

Granted though, you don't always know who the end client is but if you do, and you take a chance, at least you may get better closure.

[Fred Bloggs]

And that above is why I try to only use two or three agents in the business.

[bobspud]

I will watch this one unfold with interest.

What makes you think that you will earn more if you go direct? and if the client makes the savings (which often they do) how are you going to cope with the payroll system. Do you really think that they are going to bother to call you back?

What? Call backs like agents? I'm sick of the band of snot nosed weasels that now work in this industry.. If the some of the dickheads that phone me are the same guys employed to talk to the end clients it wont be too long before the big agencies are having a real epiphany...

It seems to me that the best of the Old Skool agents have ran away screaming by now leaving the ex double glazing salesmen to word search CV's...

While I have been on the bench I have spent time getting back in touch with old colleagues that I liked working with. The general feeling is that the agents don't do the job properly any more.
Agents used to be able to say to clients "Yes I have a guy that would fit that role for you. I had a beer with him last week... He comes free soon... Yes he would be interested in coming to your company because I dropped the name into a conversation we had and the fit looks good...."
Today a hiring manager gets a set of CVs that were based on a keyword search. The chaps concerned will be the cheapest guys, and if the manager is lucky, the agent has spent a few minutes talking to the guys when they submitted the CV...

Would any of those CV's (or the agent) win work against the CV of a guy who is recommended from within the project?

[norrahe]

Well all I can say is I think the pimp world needs a kick up the backside as they are currently undercutting contractors rates and I think client co's will be missing out on the true experts will will not work for such crap rates.

Amen brother!

I went direct with my last clientco as they asked me back, got set up with payroll, no probs and just gave them the elbow when I needed paying.

[virtualm]

Well all I can say is I think the pimp world needs a kick up the backside as they are currently undercutting contractors rates and I think client co's will be missing out on the true experts which will not work for such crap rates.

[DodgyAgent]

I've seen a role with company X, agency Y are offering ridiculously low rates. I believe I deserve a chance at this for an interview but the agent wont budge on their rates. The role is based down South and I live in the Midlands and therefore I will need to take into consideration hotels as part of my day rate.

So my question is, I know who Company X is, who should I contact direct at Company X, would it be the IT Director, Finance Director or HR Director? And should I phone them first or email my CV to them direct.

I obviously need to ask the question if they will deal with freelancers direct and I am 100% sure my true day rates will be cheaper than the pimps.

Feedback guys please!

I will watch this one unfold with interest.

What makes you think that you will earn more if you go direct? and if the client makes the savings (which often they do) how are you going to cope with the payroll system. Do you really think that they are going to bother to call you back?

[MPwannadecentincome]

Some companies insist on you going through an agency. I knew one of the recruiters at BP who was recruiting IT contractors and she told me I had to go through an agency who was on their Preferred Suppliers List. Crazy really seeing as that would probably add 20% onto the contract

Yes its all 'cos the purchasing dept want to keep the no. of preferred suppliers down so they do not have to keep doing checks on tiddly one man band ltd cos.

Sometimes umbrellas are on the preferred list - that could be an option for some to still get work direct.

[jmo21]

Call until you get through!

As pro-active as we wish HR departments and IT Directors are at times, they're typically not... agents seem to get through these roadblocks and don't let them off the phone until they've got what they want... unless you're doing the same (within reason) you're running the risk that HR will go the route of the 'pimp'...

as much as i hate agents, this is part of why company's use them

the client don't want to be bothered with 30, 40 contractors calling them up, emailing them their CV's etc

my last clientCo contact (the dev manager) was probably the busiest guy i've ever worked near, did very long hours, and my agent always struggled to get hold of him and he was on the PSL

[expat]

Some companies insist on you going through an agency. I knew one of the recruiters at BP who was recruiting IT contractors and she told me I had to go through an agency who was on their Preferred Suppliers List. Crazy really seeing as that would probably add 20% onto the contract

take 20% off your rate

[ABSTRAX]

Some companies insist on you going through an agency. I knew one of the recruiters at BP who was recruiting IT contractors and she told me I had to go through an agency who was on their Preferred Suppliers List. Crazy really seeing as that would probably add 20% onto the contract

If a company puts you through an agency on their PSL then they’re 99% acting as a payroll solution… on most occasions the agency will take a nominal fee which covers the cost of factoring money and paying the contractor, which is around 4%... the max you’re looking at them taking would be 10% for a simply payroll job which is what it would be…

In that situation it won’t ever affect you personally… margins are fixed, there’s no closing you low and pushing it up on the client side

You get stung for 20% - 25% when the agency does the whole job… the more specialist the agency and higher in demand staff they provide, the more money they’ll typically take on top... if any agency gets a ‘freebie’ from the client because you’ve done the leg work yourself, then they’re not going to be charging too much beyond the cost of covering factoring money