Reply to: Another handcuff question

[TykeMerc]

If the client were determined he could write his own deal. No agency is stupid enough to try and go to court no matter what they may say.

Indeed, as I said if I was the client I would present the agency with a couple of stark options in the light of their stupid behavior.

1. They hire you as a perm for no fee and the agency stays on the PSL, future fees pegged at a low price.

2. They kick the agency into touch, refuse to do any future business and cancel all current business immediately (contractors can be quietly rehired via another agent or direct and the agent stands almost no chance of winning if they make a fuss).

With your agent acting like a complete arse he deserves no fees at all.

[DodgyAgent]

Like I say, I'm not actually involved, just getting to hear it all through aquaintance.

If agency were sticking to 28k that would definitely lose me the job, no way the client would (or should) pay that. Since they've dropped to 12k we're at the stage if they absolutely have to they probably will pay but no further business.

Still got sales mgr visiting this week so they're hoping he'll see some sense/reason and drop nearer to the £5k-ish they wanted.

You're right in that it's a client negotiation, just fascinating (in a bad way ) to hear first-hand what can go on.

If the client were determined he could write his own deal. No agency is stupid enough to try and go to court no matter what they may say.

[the_rangdo]

Like I say, I'm not actually involved, just getting to hear it all through aquaintance.

If agency were sticking to 28k that would definitely lose me the job, no way the client would (or should) pay that. Since they've dropped to 12k we're at the stage if they absolutely have to they probably will pay but no further business.

Still got sales mgr visiting this week so they're hoping he'll see some sense/reason and drop nearer to the £5k-ish they wanted.

You're right in that it's a client negotiation, just fascinating (in a bad way ) to hear first-hand what can go on.

[DodgyAgent]

First question. Does whatever the agency charges affect whether you get the job? If it doesnt I dont understand why you need to be involved as the whole thing is a contractual matter between the client and the agent.

Forget what idiots like Turion say as their version of "fairness" is their version and is hardly objective.

Secondly 12 months (in my experience) constitutes restrictive practice, whereas 6 months is reasonable.
If I were the client I would say "here's £10k sue me for the rest, oh and by the way no more business"

[Beefy198]

Unfortunately, I would guess that that's a rather tenuous 'introduction'

[the_rangdo]

Are you opted out or opted in?

I opted out.

I suggested something similar to what you're suggesting but the 6-8 week break isn't an option the client wants.

Pimp suggested to me maybe do a 3 month extension, I carry on at normal rate but they heavily discount their fee then switch at the end. That's being mulled over by client.

Something should get resolved next week, still staggered at the cheek of the assumption that I'm somehow beholden to them just 'cos I want to take up a different position at the same client (similar skillset required though) yet I could go anywhere else, contract or perm, with no issue.

Edit: As a thought re the opted out bit, I didn't have any interview at the current client as the hiring manager knew me from a previous client. Does that count as being introduced, I've assumed not?

[ASB]

Are you opted out or opted in?

If you haven't opted out you are opted in. Take a nice 6 week (8 week?) break, go work for the company with nothing to pay.

If you are opted out wait till the end of contract, have a break of 1 day, opt-in, take an extension, give notice, take that break, go work for the company with nothing to pay.

Alternatively negotiate down to 6 or 8 weeks [maximum opted in handcuff] of the salalry (not your rate).

[Beefy198]

It's like a double-glazing quote.

We're now suddenly down from £28k to £12k.

Agency MD obviously had his heart set on a Ferrari but is happy to take a Porsche in these hard times...

[TykeMerc]

It's like a double-glazing quote.

We're now suddenly down from £28k to £12k.

If I was your client it would be a matter of £0 or £0 and no further business ever as a result of their originally absurd demands. I'd also be kicking the hell out of their upper management to get rebates on past fees if they don't want to be immediately chucked off the supplier list.

[the_rangdo]

It's like a double-glazing quote.

We're now suddenly down from £28k to £12k.

[TykeMerc]

If I was the client I would be advising the agency to find a good proctologist as if they continued being unreasonable they will need to remove a boot from their arse.
I would be contacting the agency MD and tell him that they've lost a client and will be terminating any existing business at the earliest possible date as a result of their unreasonable behaviour.

This afternoon's negotiation went something like

Pimp - "We want £28k"
Boss - "That's not going to happen. BTW, we'll be recruiting for 7-8 risk perm roles shortly, along with a scorecard mgr for a 3-mnth contract and we currently don't have a preferred provider"

5 mins later, pimp's sales manager is on the phone arranging to come up next week, wanted to come up Monday but boss is out till Weds

Gotta laugh at them

Very sensible.

[the_rangdo]

This afternoon's negotiation went something like

Pimp - "We want £28k"
Boss - "That's not going to happen. BTW, we'll be recruiting for 7-8 risk perm roles shortly, along with a scorecard mgr for a 3-mnth contract and we currently don't have a preferred provider"

5 mins later, pimp's sales manager is on the phone arranging to come up next week, wanted to come up Monday but boss is out till Weds

Gotta laugh at them

[Ravello]

Most case history on this seems to point towards the fact that this sort of clause is unenforceable. Very few cases seem to make it as far as a legal battle though since basically agencies are two-a-penny and they're not willing to risk their position on the PSL with clientco.

Also looking at the wording of the contract you pasted, it'd probably be quite easy to argue that the services are not similar to those provided under yourco... I'd make the argument that previously you were acting as a consultant in 'xxxxxx' you are now working as a permanent employee for a different department and not providing consultancy, therefore the services are wholly different and said agency should think themselves lucky that they're getting a 5% slice of the pie.

If clientco back this up with hardball stance as well, I'd happily bet agency will quickly and quietly accept the offer and skulk off to pillage elsewhere.

[the_rangdo]

The contract with your LTD is ending. The client want you personally. You personally have no relationship with the agency. Can't see the problem.

The bit that says

"1.1 The Service Provider and its Directors undertake that they shall not and that they shall procure that the Consultant(s) shall not enter into any agreement, whether directly or indirectly, to supply services of a similar nature to the Client or a subsidiary or associated company of the Client or to the Client’s clients, other than through the Company for a period of 12 months following the termination of the Agreement."

I signed the contract to that effect, although I still (4 months later) don't have a counter-signed copy after many attempts to chase.

Presumably there'll be a similar style of clause in the contract between client and agent too.

[Epiphone]

The contract with your LTD is ending. The client want you personally. You personally have no relationship with the agency. Can't see the problem.