Reply to: Newbie queries agency tactics...

[smiff]

nvm

[DodgyAgent]

Right I really need to nail these issues. Why is best practice bo**ocks? Why are the processes dumb (what particular processes are you referring to?).

Screw what information out of the contractor? I am not sure where you were going with this DA.

"best practice" is a tiresome cliche that is used and abused in order for middle management nobodies to sound professional. It is also one of those "end of debate" phrases designed to win an argument on the basis of "oh well if its best practice it must be good" without any logical support.

So when an agency asks a contractor to go along with its own cumbersome, information skimming process that agency usually defends its activities by claiming them to be "best practice".

So going back to "agent B's" activities in this scenario:

Agent B phones me up an hour later, but they put on the YTS Office monkey who asks about 10 stupid questions (where I have to rate myself) and then tells me to respond to an e mail confirming they want me to put them forward and that I am not going with another agent...


A few hours pass

Get a call from Senior Account Manager at Agent B (still sounds like a school boy). They tell me that I need to change CV, because it will go through an EXTERNAL clearing house that search for KEYWORKDS and that I should ensure that I fulfil every single one of the requirments. They also suggested that I basically bulltip my CV with more keywords.

Although the 10 dumb questions (of which if "where I rate myself" is most certainly dumb) may be part of a "best practice" process they are in truth papering over the fact that they employ stupid idiots who know nothing about IT.

Secondly for an agency to employ an "external clearing house" that requires contractors to adjust their CV for the sake of "keywords" is again an unnecessarily time consuming activity. (just imagine if every agency had its own proprietary system) Such a system is probaly in truth papering over a lack of any technical understanding within the agency, yet is probably sold to the poor contractor on the basis of being "best practice"

Most computer systems can pick out the necessary words to begin a search. However some systems like to think that they can do more than this and replace the legwork of someone with an idea about IT reading them. They cannot.

Nothing beats going through each and every CV manually.. The better one is at understanding the client, understanding IT, and knowing what to look for in a CVs then the quicker the operation. Any doubts pick up the phone and ask the contractor.

If an agent or agency doesnt have the first idea about what it is doing then admit it. Dont hide behind this "best practice" Bollocks".

Oh and as far as "skimming information" is concerned, requirements to state references up front are
often part of the "best practice" process of applying for a job.

[pmeswani]

Appreciated, I like my job being called crappy...hhmmm...on that negative basis of defining crappy jobs, I quite like mine, after all, I get to take the equivalent of your bosses out every day, wining and dining whilst you do what you do... yeah your right, terrible job!

You are the snob end of the crappy job... i was referring to the other side of the scale.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

And hence why they are in a crappy sales job and not in a proper job.

Appreciated, I like my job being called crappy...hhmmm...on that negative basis of defining crappy jobs, I quite like mine, after all, I get to take the equivalent of your bosses out every day, wining and dining whilst you do what you do... yeah your right, terrible job!

[Another Dodgy Agent]

What is all this "Best practice" bo**ocks?" it is effectively a series of dumb processes designed to paper over the inadequacies of agencies resource staff (buzzword recruiters). It is also designed to screw as much information out of contractors as possible.

Right I really need to nail these issues. Why is best practice bo**ocks? Why are the processes dumb (what particular processes are you referring to?).

Screw what information out of the contractor? I am not sure where you were going with this DA.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

you got to admire his sig though

'I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying... '

almost something that Woody Allen might have written

Blimey did I miss kick ADA day or something?? Yes it is a Woody Allen quote, apologies but I like the quote...FFS!

[Another Dodgy Agent]

This is "your" design not theirs, not anyone else's. Most agencies who try to automate their processes do so because they dont have the first idea of how to judge a CV or a skill. If a Cv is not quite right what is wrong with picking up the phone and discussing it with the contractor and then agreeing on necessary changes?

The problem of course is that most agents know so little about what it is they are supposed to be selling that they would'nt have a clue of how to even start a conversation about a CV.

Which is what I was saying so where's the problem? No, most agencies don't do all the above but we do, so why the dig??????

[pmeswani]

The problem of course is that most agents know so little about what it is they are supposed to be selling that they would'nt have a clue of how to even start a conversation about a CV.

And hence why they are in a crappy sales job and not in a proper job.

[DodgyAgent]

So I suppose the concept of working your CV in to a design that picks up your best points from previous experience in relation to a new role is a new concept? Gosh, I thought you folks were proper Ltd Co's and not temps? So you wouldn't act like a temp would you. If a consultancy firm were putting someone forward for a role they would maximise the opportunity of the skill of that person for the role, now you being a bonafide Ltd Co I guess you knew all of that, or are you a temp? In which case I am sure you are up to speed with your NI and tax contributions? What was you Ltd Co name by the way??

This is "your" design not theirs, not anyone else's. Most agencies who try to automate their processes do so because they dont have the first idea of how to judge a CV or a skill. If a Cv is not quite right what is wrong with picking up the phone and discussing it with the contractor and then agreeing on necessary changes?

The problem of course is that most agents know so little about what it is they are supposed to be selling that they would'nt have a clue of how to even start a conversation about a CV.

[DodgyAgent]

LOL, sorry but its funny, Agent B are "cowboys" because they are using good practice and identifying which candidates are really good for the role, whereas Agent A (in your world) are alright because they just breeze the candidate's CV through?

What worries me is I may have to deal with you one day and that I may put you forward to one of my clients and the above is your attitude, sorry but it scares me,it really does.

What is all this "Best practice" bo**ocks?" it is effectively a series of dumb processes designed to paper over the inadequacies of agencies resource staff (buzzword recruiters). It is also designed to screw as much information out of contractors as possible.

[EternalOptimist]

2nd'd. In this thread, and the other one, you have leaped to the defence of a fellow agent, and that in itself is admirable, since most of them would cut each other's throat for a shiekel.

But please bear in mind when you try to -um- explain away the actions of some agents, that we have very well developed tulip-agent radars, which we earned by believing them in our early days and suffering for it. We are far better placed to advise the OP on which of the two agents is probably a tulip merchant. We may be wrong, you may be right in this case, but we learned how to tell the difference the hard way.

you got to admire his sig though

'I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying... '

almost something that Woody Allen might have written

[TheBigYinJames]

I'm not suggesting that you, ADA, would behave in such an unprofessional manner - just that the arsehole that the OP is currently dealing with may be doing so. Either way, you can probably understand from this little tale why so many contractors hold so many agents in such contempt.

2nd'd. In this thread, and the other one, you have leaped to the defence of a fellow agent, and that in itself is admirable, since most of them would cut each other's throat for a shiekel.

But please bear in mind when you try to -um- explain away the actions of some agents, that we have very well developed tulip-agent radars, which we earned by believing them in our early days and suffering for it. We are far better placed to advise the OP on which of the two agents is probably a tulip merchant. We may be wrong, you may be right in this case, but we learned how to tell the difference the hard way.

[NickFitz]

So I suppose the concept of working your CV in to a design that picks up your best points from previous experience in relation to a new role is a new concept?

That's not what he's been told to do, and you know it.

What TBYJ said. The OP seems to be describing a situation where the agency is exhorting him to create whatever document might pass the "external checks" with complete disregard for - or at least no necessity of regard for - the truth. (BTW, design has nothing to do with it - words are content, not design. Design is about presentation, not content, and the original question is clearly concerning content.)

It's hardly a new concept for an agent to lie, and exhort a prospective candidate to lie, for the sake of earning a commission, is it?

I myself, in my more naive days, went for an interview where the agent had told me I was "ideally suited" and that a certain technology, of which I had nothing more than a passing acquaintance, was just a "nice to have but not essential".

Of course, the client hadn't actually bothered reading my CV properly because they expected the agent to do the filtering. When the "nice to have" skill turned out to be the primary requirement, I was left looking like an idiot.

And then the agent had the cheek to tell me that the client had said that I was a "very poor candidate" (which I was, for that role) and tell me it was my fault and I was getting him a bad name

I'm not suggesting that you, ADA, would behave in such an unprofessional manner - just that the arsehole that the OP is currently dealing with may be doing so. Either way, you can probably understand from this little tale why so many contractors hold so many agents in such contempt.

[TheBigYinJames]

So I suppose the concept of working your CV in to a design that picks up your best points from previous experience in relation to a new role is a new concept?

That's not what he's been told to do, and you know it.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Time to read the thread again from the very first posting.



But then perhaps it's too much to expect an agent to do more than skim-read anything.

So I suppose the concept of working your CV in to a design that picks up your best points from previous experience in relation to a new role is a new concept? Gosh, I thought you folks were proper Ltd Co's and not temps? So you wouldn't act like a temp would you. If a consultancy firm were putting someone forward for a role they would maximise the opportunity of the skill of that person for the role, now you being a bonafide Ltd Co I guess you knew all of that, or are you a temp? In which case I am sure you are up to speed with your NI and tax contributions? What was you Ltd Co name by the way??