Reply to: agreeing rate with agency

[slickcontractor]

Dear all,

Please can anyone offer advice to help me with my dilemma?

AGENCY CALLS:
An agency called me about a 3-month renewable contract. As is usually the case, they asked me my daily rate.

I replied as I usually do, that it depends upon the nature of the role and what the end-client was offering to pay. Following his script, he gave the usual response that they needed to know what I would be prepared to accept, to prevent them from seeking jobs whos rates were 'too low'.

Taking this as the truth, I said that the MINIMUM that I usually look for is GBP 250/day for a standard Cisco CCNA level support/implementation role.

ACCEPTED FOR INTERVIEW:
A day later I received an email stating that they had submitted my CV to their client at GBP250/day. Later on, I saw on jobserve.com, the same role (description / wording identical) from another agency, quoting a rate of between GBP380 - 410/day.

I attended the interview and it became apparent that the role required skills above CCNA level (policy-based routing, crypto-maps, PIX firewall, NBAR, etc. etc.). The technical interviewer and I got on well and we felt that I would be capable for the job.

AGENT GOES BALLISTIC / LOSES MARBLES:
Upon my return home, the agent called and asked me whether I'd accept the job, if it were offered. I said yes, subject to our agreeing the rate.

The agent went ballistic, shouting down the telephone and saying that I was "calling his professional integrity into question" (seriously, with no hint of irony) and that the rate "had already been agreed" / "was absolutely non-negotiable", etc. etc. ad nauseum.

MY DILEMMA IS:
I strongly suspect that the agency would be receiving at least GBP450/day, which means that their markup is somewhat above the de-facto standard 15 to 20 percent. This I feel is unreasonable. However, jobs are becoming harder to get (I've been out of work for a good nine months).

DO I: Take the job at 250/day and harbour the uncomfortable feeling that I have been taken in.

OR DO I: Withdraw my application, on principle.

My position is that I have a financial buffer and would be able to continue job-seeking for at least another year. I also understand that agencies have a job to do and are entitled to a commission, however it must be reasonable.

Any help / advice / opinions would be gratefully received.

no brainer here. Go with the agency offering more money. At the end of the day if the other agency is applying for the role, then they are listed as a preferred supplier by the client and the client couldnt care who represents you as long as you can come and do the job. I was offered a role with XXX agency at 360. After interview, i saw on JB agency YYY advertising same role at 400. Went back to XXX and they said that YYY were not genuine and they refused to increase. I ended with YYY, signed contract and never looked back. I may be blacklisted but i couldnt give a hoot. I am a mercenary in this business and my code is "whoever pays mo gets my service". And yes i have no loyalties because they dont either.

Happy days

lol

[darenmatthews]

Thanks Everyone

Once again a big thank you to all who responded with very useful advice. It's very much appreciated.

[thunderlizard]

You've just proved you can get £380, so you'd be mad to take £250 unless you're going to run out of money imminently.

The agent was clutching at straws when he shouted at you. He hasn't a leg to stand on. You can't damage an agent's professional integrity anyway.


Having said that, you shouldn't make an offer of £250 unless you're prepared to do it for £250. If you quote a minimum figure, that immediately becomes the only figure. I know that if I was buying a car, and the dealer said I needed to pay him £5,000 minimum, I'd pay £5,000 exactly.

No worries though, everybody makes rate mistakes when they start out. I certainly did!

[BolshieBastard]

In situations like this where the skillset is clear more than basic, you need to tell the agent that the rate you specified was based on the understanding that the skillset was fair basic. After attending the interview and discussing with client, its clear that it is lot higher and therefore, you need to specify a higher rate than what you was put forward at.

The agent having lost their professional integrity, you must keep calm and not respond likewise. Calmly tell the agent you dont normally change your rate demands but this is clearly a case where a higher skillset is called for. Be wary that the other advertised rate you saw may be from an agent not on the PSL and was just indulging in a cv trawl 'in case.'

Bottom line is, the agent is over a barrel IF the client wants you. You've also got to be prepared to walk if the agent wont play ball though. You've got to weigh up the job market after all, a bird in the hand etc.

[Torran]

Torran i dont think you get it Darren mentioned he has not worked in 9 months for what ever reason, he was offered a weekly rate of £1250 and i think that is a very good rate for someone who has not worked for a while.

Why compare it to a perm wage then? As a contractor I don't give a flying tulip what a perm gets.

Its a rubbish rate if the market rate is £380-£410 no matter how long he is out of work for.

[Recruitment Agent]

Torran i dont think you get it Darren mentioned he has not worked in 9 months for what ever reason, he was offered a weekly rate of £1250 and i think that is a very good rate for someone who has not worked for a while.

[Torran]

With this particular role I quoted my bottom line when asked and the agent came back with an offer that was my bottom line . I asked him to go back to the client and push for a higher rate (£75 p.d) more.
I explained that the role was pretty demanding, the project was a known nightmare and looked as though 50+ hour weeks were going to be the norm.

He sucked it up and came back with an agreement of £45. p.d more. I was happy as I would probably have done it for my bottom line figure.

As for the comment from the recruitment agent that its still more than a permanent resource would get I really don't think you get it

[ratewhore]

As I always say, offer and acceptance are subject to final agreed terms and conditions, of which rate is a part...

[darenmatthews]

Thanks to all who replied

A big thankyou to everyone who replied - there was some useful advice here, from both sides (contractors and agents). I really appreciate it.

I think I'll chalk it up to experience. In future I will continue to state a daily rate, as is usually requested. I guess the agents need something to go on. But, I will hammer home the caveat that the rate can be renegotiated, if the role differs significantly from that which has been described.

As a footnote: Let's all hope that the market improves in future. Good luck to all.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Wouldn't normally condone this but it does sound like the agent is taking the mick on margin...so...I would call the hiring manager direct and say that you would be happy to accept the role, however the agent is only willing to represent you at £250 per day to you and that for the role you feel that you would be looking for xxx. You are happy to go through the agent that originally submitted you (i.e. don't create too many headaches for the hiring manager), but when you broached this with the agent the were not willing to promote you at xxx rate.

If the agent was above board he would do this for you. I have had situations where candidate went over at x rate, come back to me after interview and wants y rate because role more in depth than spec led to believe. I go back to client and say candidate is up for it but wants y. Client goes no prob.

I hate OTHER agents!!!

[b0redom]

Just say that it's a far more senior role, and for that type of work you need £x.

Alternativly you've been offered something more lucrative with a previous client, you'd really like to take his opportunity as it will give you a chance to grow etc etc, but you are being offered £x.

It's probably a bit late to do either of these now though, so you may have to either:

1) Suck it up and don't undersell yourself next time
2) Threaten to walk and do so if they don't up the rate

[Ravello]

Stick to your guns and request from the agent the rate that you think is acceptable for the role (probably between 380-410 if other advert is accurate). If as you suspect the agent/agency are trying to bolster their percentage then ultimately they'll huff and puff a bit but will likely meet your demands as you have the offer on the table.

You do have to be prepared to lose the offer though as they might try to save face by taking it off the table. Under those circumstances make sure you write/email/call the end client and thank them for the offer and state how much you regret not being able to join them, highlighting of course that you just couldn't accept the day rate offered by the agency of 250 for the skillset required.

Chances are that if the agent/agency is trying to pull a fast one and were trying to sell you in at 450 the client won't be too impressed either and it may re-open that door for you!

Also, for future reference, if an agency insists upon a figure up front, give them a high one - it can always be negotiated down, but it's harder to negotiate back up again.

[Advocate]

The usual response on here is that it doesn't matter what the agency get...are you happy to take the contract at 250, if so, that's your rate.

I'm sure some of my more enlightened board members will give a much more interesting response.

[Recruitment Agent]

Dear all,

Please can anyone offer advice to help me with my dilemma?

AGENCY CALLS:
An agency called me about a 3-month renewable contract. As is usually the case, they asked me my daily rate.

I replied as I usually do, that it depends upon the nature of the role and what the end-client was offering to pay. Following his script, he gave the usual response that they needed to know what I would be prepared to accept, to prevent them from seeking jobs whos rates were 'too low'.

Taking this as the truth, I said that the MINIMUM that I usually look for is GBP 250/day for a standard Cisco CCNA level support/implementation role.

ACCEPTED FOR INTERVIEW:
A day later I received an email stating that they had submitted my CV to their client at GBP250/day. Later on, I saw on jobserve.com, the same role (description / wording identical) from another agency, quoting a rate of between GBP380 - 410/day.

I attended the interview and it became apparent that the role required skills above CCNA level (policy-based routing, crypto-maps, PIX firewall, NBAR, etc. etc.). The technical interviewer and I got on well and we felt that I would be capable for the job.

AGENT GOES BALLISTIC / LOSES MARBLES:
Upon my return home, the agent called and asked me whether I'd accept the job, if it were offered. I said yes, subject to our agreeing the rate.

The agent went ballistic, shouting down the telephone and saying that I was "calling his professional integrity into question" (seriously, with no hint of irony) and that the rate "had already been agreed" / "was absolutely non-negotiable", etc. etc. ad nauseum.

MY DILEMMA IS:
I strongly suspect that the agency would be receiving at least GBP450/day, which means that their markup is somewhat above the de-facto standard 15 to 20 percent. This I feel is unreasonable. However, jobs are becoming harder to get (I've been out of work for a good nine months).

DO I: Take the job at 250/day and harbour the uncomfortable feeling that I have been taken in.

OR DO I: Withdraw my application, on principle.

My position is that I have a financial buffer and would be able to continue job-seeking for at least another year. I also understand that agencies have a job to do and are entitled to a commission, however it must be reasonable.

Any help / advice / opinions would be gratefully received.

Accept the rate if you have bills to pay I know it sounds biased (coming from an agent) you are still earning more money than a permanant employee.. but a rate should have been agreed at the beginning,if the agent has a budget of 410 he can definatly give you some of his margin. But the way the market is going at the momment I have clients employing contractors from my agency and sugesting they are only looking to take contractors from us only if they would accept below the market rate....

[AnthonyQuinn]

Do not accept

Unless you are desperate for a job, say outright that you cant accept. Shout back at the agent that you believe the role is superior than what was discussed. Explain how.

Make it clear that you are not accepting anything under <>. Fill in as you feel appropriate. Let him know that any further discussion under that rate will be a waste of time.