Reply to: Advice Please - Opt In / Out Contract Wording

[AimeeLB]

What is Opt In / Out?!

Can someone explain to me what this opt in and out actually means? My contractor has asked me to sign an opt out and just said that it was so that if the company offered me future work I agree to still go through the agency. Which I thought was fine, but when I read the opt out form it didn't seem to say anything to do with that so I don't understand what it is. And all of your comments in this thread seem very negative about opting out so I'm worried about doing it now.

[Cowboy Bob]

I always opt-in for one reason, and one reason alone - I'm guaranteed to get paid whether or not the client has paid the agent.

The agents will try all kinds of tricks to try and convince you why you need to opt-out (the usual being it's not IR35 compliant), but it's all rubbish. The advantage of opting-out is all with the agent, the advantage of opting-in is all with the contractor. It's a no-brainer really. Opting-in is the only way to go.

[tim123]

A lot of agencies clearly do not understand this. However, doesn't opting in create a lot of additional paperwork for MyCo? I will take a look at the PCG site since I am sure there must be some standard response to the effect of saying that MyCo has vetted all its staff and all are eligible to work in the UK, etc etc.

It does yes, but that extra paperwork is all necessary before they send off the CV to the client.

Having you opt out when the send you the contract saves them nothing (except the risk of you going direct - and having had an interesting long term job denied me because the agent wouldn't reduce their margin, not a right I'm going to sign away in the future)

tim

[MaryPoppins]

Thanks Tyke! I ended up wishing I'd never mentioned it really. Three other contractors next to me here at work were baffled by my conversations and had no idea - I told them to look for themselves, I find it a bit irritating when people start contracting and don't bother investigating issues which concern them. I also hate the conversation with permies which starts with them idly saying "I'd like to get into contracting, seems easy enough, can you talk me through it?" Ggrrr.

[TykeMerc]

Good for you MaryPoppins, it's all too easy to cave in the face of pressure like this, but you were very clearly in the right and Elan knew it.

[The Lone Gunman]

Thanks TykeMerc, that's exactly what I did. He called me a few more times, reiterating in various ways that I was still able to opt out, so I politely informed him that it was irrelevant now since I have been advised I am now opted in (made out I'd sought legal advice which subdued him somewhat). I then emailed him quoting the paragraph from the regulations, all official like. I mentioned out of interest that my standard practice would have been to opt out immediately then opt back in if I thought necessary, but that on this occasion I'd forgotten, which I was now glad about as I would probably like to remain opted in, given some concerns I now have about their practices. I also mentioned that the PCG advise that agencies are not allowed to be seen to 'encourage' contractors to opt out,and that the wording on their contract does just that.

I know this issue comes up again and again but I am completely sick of agencies doing all they can to ensure they get maximum return for minimum work. If I did that I would never get work!

Thanks for all your help on what must be a boring subject for you all now!

Lisa

It is boring. It is also annoying. We feel the same way as you. I have had many discussions with my current agent on the opt out and he like yours insists all is OK.

We are very glad to help with stuff like this because the more people know the better it is for all of us.

[MaryPoppins]

Thanks TykeMerc, that's exactly what I did. He called me a few more times, reiterating in various ways that I was still able to opt out, so I politely informed him that it was irrelevant now since I have been advised I am now opted in (made out I'd sought legal advice which subdued him somewhat). I then emailed him quoting the paragraph from the regulations, all official like. I mentioned out of interest that my standard practice would have been to opt out immediately then opt back in if I thought necessary, but that on this occasion I'd forgotten, which I was now glad about as I would probably like to remain opted in, given some concerns I now have about their practices. I also mentioned that the PCG advise that agencies are not allowed to be seen to 'encourage' contractors to opt out,and that the wording on their contract does just that.

I know this issue comes up again and again but I am completely sick of agencies doing all they can to ensure they get maximum return for minimum work. If I did that I would never get work!

Thanks for all your help on what must be a boring subject for you all now!

Lisa

[badger7579]

Just out of curiosity has anyone here actually had a situation where the status of their opt in / opt out effected them while on contract???

Are we getting strung out on something that in the big scheme of things is pretty irrelevant???

[Mustang]

A lot of agencies clearly do not understand this. However, doesn't opting in create a lot of additional paperwork for MyCo? I will take a look at the PCG site since I am sure there must be some standard response to the effect of saying that MyCo has vetted all its staff and all are eligible to work in the UK, etc etc.

[TykeMerc]

They won't let this go. I have signed the contract etc but have had several calls and emails from them, each time informing me that "I can still opt out if I want to, do I?" and that their legal team has advised them that consultants can opt out up to their first day, not including interview. Last call involved me patiently explaining to the (clearly panicked) agent who asked would it be Ok for someone more senior than his boss to call me to "see what they can do for me" - my response was, yep, cool - but I am opted in so it makes no odds to me.

If they make any threats re: the contract (starting in two weeks) I am able to contact my potential manager directly. Should I?

They're breaking the law if they attempt to pressure you into opting out, keep all emails and notes of conversations. I would also state to them on their next phonecall that you're recording the conversation.
If there are any threats to refuse the contract because you haven't opted out or if the contract mysteriouly gets pulled you should take proper legal advice.

I might be tempted in your situation to respond to the agent in writing stating you have taken legal advice (even if you haven't) and that you're opted in and that can't be changed. It might be worth implying that in the event of anything "happening" to the contract that you will be content to take them to court for your losses caused by their ineptitude.

[malvolio]

There is some debate over "Introduction". DBERR's view is that it is first realistic contact, bearing in mind that if you worked as a secretarial temp for Office Angels (the kind of worker these regs are actually pointed at) you are quite likely to turn up on a Monday without any prior contact with the client, who may not even know your name until you arrive.

Many agencies fail to make the distinction. These guys are plainly wrong, and you don't have to opt out anyway. Stuff 'em.

[MaryPoppins]

They won't let this go. I have signed the contract etc but have had several calls and emails from them, each time informing me that "I can still opt out if I want to, do I?" and that their legal team has advised them that consultants can opt out up to their first day, not including interview. Last call involved me patiently explaining to the (clearly panicked) agent who asked would it be Ok for someone more senior than his boss to call me to "see what they can do for me" - my response was, yep, cool - but I am opted in so it makes no odds to me.

If they make any threats re: the contract (starting in two weeks) I am able to contact my potential manager directly. Should I?

[TykeMerc]

Agents boss has called and said:

"If you so wish you can still opt out, as long as you have not met the client to start the work, you can still opt out if you would like to. The interview does not class itself as meeting the client and affecting the contract at all at that point."

??

Agents "boss" is a muppet, they're just trying it on.

If a face to face interview doesn't constitute a meeting then I've no idea why.

[MaryPoppins]

Thanks lone, just looking back through old threads now, and thought as much anyway. Contract is now signed in any case, just trying to prove a point with the guy who is (as per) assuming I am a clueless girly.

[The Lone Gunman]

Agents boss has called and said:

"If you so wish you can still opt out, as long as you have not met the client to start the work, you can still opt out if you would like to. The interview does not class itself as meeting the client and affecting the contract at all at that point."

??

They are simply wrong. Look back at other threads concerning opt out being on contract etc...

Up side is that you can sign it then ignore it if you need to use the regs.