Newbie questions ! that first contract!

[BrilloPad]

Sorry, obviously feeling a bit too chilled this pm... Actually, come to think of it...


Opportunist - I forgot to mention that (a) contractors don't get the interesting work, they're there to clean up after the permies have stuffed things up or things opermies don't lnow how to do anyway, (b) you're measuered strictly on results so get it wrong and you're immediately not earning and (c) this is a crap time to bail out of permiedom anyway. And if you've been reading these fora, please tell me you've also read the usual First Time guides and aren't going to start on about offshore schemes, company-funded plasma screen TVs and agency margins...

And the ying-yang balance is restored!

[malvolio]

Sorry, obviously feeling a bit too chilled this pm... Actually, come to think of it...


Opportunist - I forgot to mention that (a) contractors don't get the interesting work, they're there to clean up after the permies have stuffed things up or things opermies don't lnow how to do anyway, (b) you're measuered strictly on results so get it wrong and you're immediately not earning and (c) this is a crap time to bail out of permiedom anyway. And if you've been reading these fora, please tell me you've also read the usual First Time guides and aren't going to start on about offshore schemes, company-funded plasma screen TVs and agency margins...

[synoniv]

Agencies can be classified into mainly 4 categories.

Cat 1 - Works with top-notch clients (FTSE 100 or Top tech/telecom) and volumes matter for their business. The rate bracket for various contractor roles and their margins would have already been agreed with their client' recruitment manager that they are working for. Generally speaking, they have a liaison office or a team dedicated for recruiting within specific programs or projects running. Such agencies won’t bite you bad in terms of money, contract structure and it is fairly safe to assume that these agencies are 'IR35 aware' and they structure their contracts IR35-friendly for long term prospects.
e.g: Abraxas, Modis, Lorien, Hays etc

Cat 2 - Works with mid-cap or start-up companies and they normally look to find cheap candidates because their client would have strictly instructed them with the budget to hire, sometimes after seeing the 'initial market response' . They take time to recruit but often the roles vary and probably the most challenging contracts exist in this tier in my view. Midcap companies rarely recruit PMs, mainly take specialists on contract.

Cat 3 - these are the PITA category, the CV hunting companies. They sometimes act as a 'middlemen' , job market researchers, or as an invoicing channel taking their margin and liaise with tier1 and tier2 companies in administering contracts. These companies specialise in skills that are in shortage, but also have the habit of 'banking' CVs and asking reference upfront for future roles for their tier-1 clients.

Cat 4 - Typically, these are rather offshore based companies (employing Cat 3 type recruiters) and they would be looking to hire somebody locally mainly because they can’t get someone to travel from their offshore entity with a visa processed in time for their client’s requirements. From what I have heard, their rates are mediocre and your may have to put 12 or 14 hours a day to marry you into their work culture and time zone differences.

[BrilloPad]

BTW - contracting is not primarily about the money...


Rule of thumb - £50k salary = £50 per hour, if you're good at the job and have a contracting history to back it up. Take off at least 10% as a newbie. And all you are sellling is what you have done - not taken part in, had a peripheral interest in or been somewhere in the team reposnible. Make sure you have that clear in your head.

Mal - next time you are going to be nice to a newbie can we have some warning?

Anyone got any smelling salts?

[the_Opportunist]

thanks All,
some sage words here


malvolio - a fellow welsh man, although i'm not fluent in our nations mother tongue! ble wyt ti'n byw malvolio?

[malvolio]

BTW - contracting is not primarily about the money...


Rule of thumb - £50k salary = £50 per hour, if you're good at the job and have a contracting history to back it up. Take off at least 10% as a newbie. And all you are sellling is what you have done - not taken part in, had a peripheral interest in or been somewhere in the team reposnible. Make sure you have that clear in your head.

[the_Opportunist]

.

thanks for comments,

yeah have short notice period, so can move reasonable quickly,

would classify myself as a hybrid !, started as BA then done few yrs of hands on PM, so can do both, but see what your saying on the need to be clear as to what to look for and tune the cv accordingly.

when it does come to that first contract neg with agent, any tips? don;t want to have my pants pulled down!

thasnks

[TykeMerc]

Are you an experienced PM or a BA who's aspiring towards project management? It's important to specific and clearly demonstrate what line of work you want and expect to be paid for.

In my experience as I had (I removed a lot of it) a lot of technical stuff on my CV, agents and HR departments will see you as a BA if you put a lot of that stuff on there, I still get agents calling me for tech jobs from old CV's despite the fact that I've not been technical in 5+ years.

The rates you're suggesting are those you would expect for an experienced PM, while you might get in the 3-400 range as a first timer I doubt you will. That being said a guy from my last gig has done just that this week, but he has a lot of hugely relevant experience (and security clearance) for the contract he's starting tomorrow.

[the_Opportunist]

thanks for your sound advice here guys,

in my current position, its a weeks notice, so pretty flexible, however if need ot go for interviews etc its better top be completely flexibly. but prefer to have something lined up and confirmed before handing in notice , its balancing the financial risk for sure.

in terms of the firsrt contract neg with the agency/client, any tips there? as a new contractor would it be better to accept lower than i would ideally want? i'd prefer not to have my pants pulled down on it though!


thanks

[alantan]

Difficult to give advice in the current market. Don't expect to land that perfect contract right away, there are a lot of contractors out there looking who have the generic skills (.NET, J2EE, etc.). If you have something unique that is in demand, that will naturally help you gain the advantage in getting the interview more quickly, and getting through it.

It is assumed that one would normally quit their permie job before looking, as most contracts are last minute affairs and require a start of within two weeks, some less than that. Having said that, you might be in a different situation (short notice) with your current employer.

So... If you are going to quit first, be sure that, financially speaking, you can weather out at least 3-4 months looking for a contract. It's theoretically doable in 1-2 weeks, but "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst".

At the moment, the only situation where I would advise getting out of stable payslips is if your boss was making your life a complete misery. In a slow market, being bored and paid is better than being fascinated with job boards and hungry.

Hope I'm not being too obvious here...

[BrilloPad]

welcome to cuk!

1st time contractors often get a lower rate from the client - but agencies can take a bigger cut if they scent fresh bait!

so far contract market has held up well - personally I dont think it has further down to go but others disagree.

If you wait and wait you might wait forever! if you get a job you might be best to go with it. as you have a job yoiu can wait for the right role?

[the_Opportunist]

Hi,

Currently I am seriously considering working as a contractor as in my current role (Permie) all interesting work has dried up plus need a change and a challenge! So i'm bored stiff!!

Have sent my CV for several out to several agencies from jobserve this wkd, so let see what happens this week.

Found this site and have been reading through the forum, great source of info and now much more informed!!

Questions

1) Anyone have any tips for handling the agency when it comes to the first contract opp? As a first timer I am wary they might take the pee or something, sure I will get the contract checked by IR35 specialist, are they likely to push me down for low rate? should i need to manage my expectation here on the first contract? anything else based on others experiences for their "first time" or in general? how to neg on hours? rate? 4 day week etc?

2) also, by current Permie salary is 50k , what would be a good rate to make it all worthwhile? i am thinking in the 350 to 400 range initially? OR shoudl i wait for the moment until the market picks up, my typical roles will be PM/BA.

any thoughts or past experiences much appreciated

Cheers