Reply to: Agencies still requesting SC/DV

[Badger]

This is a good one!

Position: Solutions Architect
Skills: Solutions Architect needed in the london are . A solutions
architect is required to work an initial 6-month contract, based in the
London area. SC Clearance, DV Clearance, MOD Cleared, Home Office
Cleared, Data Architect, Data Warehousing, ETL, Extract/Transform/Load,
Data Modelling, Oracle, SQL, Business Objects, SOA, XML, Data Quality.
My Client, a major Government organisation, is currently looking to
recruit an experienced SC Cleared Data Architect, to work an initial
6-month contract based...
Location: London
Rate: £700.00 - £701 per day
Advertiser: Spring Technology
Business Type: Employment Business
Contact: Abdul Farooq
Phone: 0121 788 6600
Fax: 0121 788 6830
Email: mailto:[email protected]
Ref: JS231023-A
Date: 11/07/2008 20:37:49

[tim123]

No no no!! Your manager can make a risk assessment that you are likely to get cleared, and can therefore access cleared material, since he will be aware of what you are seeing and what you are allowed to see and will keep away from you anything you aren't allowed to see. You can get quite a long way into writing a programme before you have to see the live source data, after all.

This whole thing about sitting in a box until cleared is a complete myth. It doesn't happpen.

You might be right that it doesn't happen ANYMORE, but I can assure you it did used to be the rule!

Been there, twice.

tim

[TykeMerc]

It's not just tech roles that require clearance to be in place to work effectively. Try to use a Business Analyst on some projects and limit him/her from seeing relevant Secret documents and see how far you get. Same goes for many other project team roles for that matter including PM.

This year SC clearances have taken 6-8 weeks and I'm informed that DV in less than 4 months is just about impossible.

While it may not be proper for a role to be advertised as must already having clearance as a requirement, let's face it when you want a Contractor you typically want the person in a couple of weeks at most and potentially having to give said Contractor a minder is unnecessary cost. As a PM I wouldn't ever waste my budget on resources that I couldn't fully utilise independant of oversight.

Incidentally being ex military typically slows down clearance rather than speeding it up.

[Weltchy]

Yes, and a certain number of roles - DBA, Sysadmin, Network manager - can't have informed oversight, so are also out of scope and are permited to require pre-clearance under the rules. But the CO themselves agree these are in the minority.

Put it this way: there was a big service programme that dies because they couldn't get cleared people in to train the project staff on best practice service management prinicples. These people didn't need to be on site, they didn't even have to know who the client was to do the job required, so why did they need to be cleared?

Agreed. Must admit, as I was writing my reply, I was biased toward a situation where the percentages would be quite small, mainly based on my own prior experience of clearance.

[malvolio]

Sorry Mal, but in certain circumstances, a very small number of projects will not allow the manager to do this.

PS - Changed what I said to cover my backside!!!

Yes, and a certain number of roles - DBA, Sysadmin, Network manager - can't have informed oversight, so are also out of scope and are permited to require pre-clearance under the rules. But the CO themselves agree these are in the minority.

Put it this way: there was a big and necessary service programme that died because they couldn't get cleared people in to train the project staff on best practice service management prinicples. These people didn't need to be on site, they didn't even have to know who the client was to do the job required, so why did they need to be cleared?

[Weltchy]

since he will be aware of what you are seeing and what you are allowed to see and will keep away from you anything you aren't allowed to see.

Sorry Mal, but in certain circumstances, a very small number of projects will not allow the manager to do this.

PS - Changed what I said to cover my backside!!!

[malvolio]

I disagree. You will only be allowed to work on areas and information which are unrestricted until you have clearance.

If the entire content of the project is secret or above, likewise the media upon which the information is stored is the same, as is the area, you will not be granted access or be allowed to work on the project until such time as you have suitable clearance and have been "read" into the project.

Hence, it is quite possible for you to be sat doing nothing for a fair amount of time

No no no!! Your manager can make a risk assessment that you are likely to get cleared, and can therefore access cleared material, since he will be aware of what you are seeing and what you are allowed to see and will keep away from you anything you aren't allowed to see. You can get quite a long way into writing a programme before you have to see the live source data, after all.

This whole thing about sitting in a box until cleared is a complete myth. It doesn't happpen.

[Weltchy]

That's not true, it just means you can't be left unsupervised and need to be escorted. You can still work.

I disagree. You will only be allowed to work on areas and information which are unrestricted until you have clearance.

If the entire content of the project is secret or above, likewise the media upon which the information is stored is the same, as is the area, you will not be granted access or be allowed to work on the project until such time as you have suitable clearance and have been "read" into the project.

Hence, it is quite possible for you to be sat doing nothing for a fair amount of time

[TheBigYinJames]

Being realistic, if you have to wait 30 days for clearance, have no access to any of the information, etc that is required to get started on the project, the client would be essentially paying you to do nothing for 30 days.

That's not true, it just means you can't be left unsupervised and need to be escorted. You can still work.

[Weltchy]

Being realistic, if you have to wait 30 days for clearance, have no access to any of the information, etc that is required to get started on the project, the client would be essentially paying you to do nothing for 30 days.

Show me one project manager who is going to justify having someone sat around being paid for 1 month to do absolutely nothing.

PS - When you find one, please point him out!!!

[malvolio]

Wrong, but I'm not inclined to argue; I'll let you re-read what I said earlier in this thread. Almost all IT people can work safely on secure sites without risk, if the procedures are followed.

[tim123]

I think you mean Civil Servants or Servicemen, actually.

The rules do not distinguish between permie and Contractor, the same remedies apply. The reason "perms" get taken on is becuase they are employed by HMG who understand the rules. 99% of Contractors will be through PFI suppliers who, just like you, don't.
.

We not talking about rules, we're talking about reality.

The reality is that if you a have an upcoming project that starts in 3 months you recruit perms for it.

But if the need for staff is tomorrow, you recruit a contractor.

This has got nothing to do with projects requiring cleared workers, it applies to almost all projects.

So, if a secure project has got to the point where it is recruiting contractors they will usually be needed tomorrow and there is no time to wait for them to be cleared. Expecting anything else is just not realistic.

Obviously there are some exceptions but they are in the minority.

tim

[malvolio]

These people are called perms

tim

I think you mean Civil Servants or Servicemen, actually.

The rules do not distinguish between permie and Contractor, the same remedies apply. The reason "perms" get taken on is becuase they are employed by HMG who understand the rules. 99% of Contractors will be through PFI suppliers who, just like you, don't.

Food for thought - 40% of contracts are with HMG right now. 10% of contractors can apply for them.

[tim123]

Sorry but that's rubbish. On that basis nobody would ever be able to get any role that requires clearance. .

These people are called perms

tim

[basshead]

Here's a good one:

http://www.jobserve.com/I848177A1552D67B5.job

My client reauires a SC (secret cleared level) Security cleared manual tester with excellent expereince in Web based technologies and Java technologies. SC clearance is essential.