Reply to: Contracting directly with Belgium Client

[anuser]

private messages

Admin, please allow me to send private messages to nodric.

Thank you!

<admin note>Done </admin note>

[vladone]

questions about belgium taxation and contracts

Hello,

I have read all the threads regarding Belgium taxation and contracts but still I have some questions and need some advises.

Scenario 1:
Jon from Eastern Europe has been working as a freelancer in Belgium for much more than 183 days. He was recruited by a Belgium company and provides services to a Belgium client (EC). He invoices to the Belgium company.
i.e. Jon from Eastern Europe -> Belgium company -> Belgium client (Europ. Comm.)
Jon resume:
- has been working in Belgium for much more than 183 days
- he pays taxes in Eastern Europe; he consider himself Eastern Europe tax resident
- he is NOT registered with LIMOSA
- he is NOT registered at the Commune
- he has a Belgium bank account where he receives the money and he rented an apartment on his wife name(the renting contract is not declared by the owner to the authorities)
Questions:
1.1. "How much" Belgium tax resident is Jon?(consider he does not exist officially in Belgium)
1.2. If Belgium tax authorities(BTA) want to make Jon Belgium tax resident then how will they to that?(letter to his freelance address, stopping him on the street) What if he leaves Belgium next day?

Scenario 2:
Jon is worried about Q1.2 from scenario 1. He thinks to update Scenario 1 by replacing Belgium company with its mother South-Eastern Europe company. So he will invoice to South-Eastern Europe company.
i.e. Jon from Eastern Europe -> South-Eastern Europe company -> Belgium client (Europ. Comm.)
Questions:
2.1. In which scenario is Jon "less" Belgium tax resident?(consider Scenario 2 when he does not invoice to a Belgium company and he thinks he will be far away from BTA)
2.2. From now on should he use the Belgium bank account? Or is better to receive the money in another country?


Please help Jon! He is quite worried. Thank you all.
The events depicted in this post are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[Boo]

Guys,
If anyone wants to chat about this without pasting personal and confidential data on the forum then feel free to get in touch.
Nodric

Hi Nodric,

I know this was a long time ago now, but I've just got a contract in Belgium and I'd be very interested to have some first hand information about how it all works. I can't PM you so please could you email me via the forums to get in touch.

Thanks,

Boo

[soophy]

Belgium payroll

May I know which management companies can run Belgium payroll for contractors as best savings to us.

[compaid]

working in belgium

I think this person needs advice rather than pulling him to bits.

Working in Belgium longer than 180 days will make you tax resident. However there is a special scheme for IT and teachers where you can register as a non resident under the special arrangements. This allows you to pay uk tax on UK income outside of Belgium taxes. However you still pay Belgium taxes on declared income and NI.

To reduce this use a shelter company such as Itecs who will take you onboard as a employee with a share option. They will pay you a gross and about half against a dividend. You are still liable for emplyee, employer NI which is high in Belgium. They estaimate about 36% total tax on say 100k plus.

They also advise that if you live in UK and pay into UK NI that you can opt out of Belgium NI if you obtain an e101 and can prove that you have the health insurance for UK (a card). This is then arranged by transferring a small salary to your UK firm to pay your NI contribution. NI can only be paid in one EU country at a time. As UK Ni will be based on min salary it caould be very low or none at all, providing you pay enough to maintain the E101 cover.

You must register this at the commune to stop the NI payments. Unfortunately they only appear to do this for UK and no other countries.

Hope that helps.

[Double L]

Sorry after this last post I went to Spain for 8 weeks (yes I also work there and ofcourse have some holidays)

If still necesarry you can send me an e-mail doublel_the_real@hotmail.com I give you then a more official e-mail.

[Double L]

Hi, Double L

I cannot PM you or email you, I think because you have a low post count, can you change your personal settings so I can send you an email?

Thanks

OK I try to change this.

It's a new account so indeed a low post.

[Magic]

Unable to PM or send email to you

Don't worry the Belgian fisc can't do anything.

You are UK citizen with a swiss company working all over europe and also for one client in Belgium.

If you want I can give you more information just send me a message

Hi, Double L

I cannot PM you or email you, I think because you have a low post count, can you change your personal settings so I can send you an email?

Thanks

[Magic]

Don't worry the Belgian fisc can't do anything.

You are UK citizen with a swiss company working all over europe and also for one client in Belgium.

If you want I can give you more information just send me a message

I think I need ten post's here before I can pm you, so will rack a few more replies on here, then I will definitely pm you.

Thanks

[Double L]

Don't worry the Belgian fisc can't do anything.

You are UK citizen with a swiss company working all over europe and also for one client in Belgium.

If you want I can give you more information just send me a message

[Magic]

Belgium Accounting

I own a Belgian company in accounting and also have 2 UK Ltd's

The question is do you have more than 1 client and if yes where are they situated?

There are a lot of solutions to create a tax-friendly construction.

Yes, but for a while my main one would be in Belgium, the other in Switzerland, possible other in UK and my Company is Swiss GmbH.

Looking at another thread, what is to stop me starting a Belgium Company and billing most of the money out of the other? Seems crazy to me as everyone wants to tax the nuts off everyone, this 183 day rule does my head in.

I would still like to know how the days are counted, are they for each midnight you are there or each working day?

With a few well timed holidays and possible four day weeks you could keep the 183 day, I think.

[Double L]

I own a Belgian company in accounting and also have 2 UK Ltd's

The question is do you have more than 1 client and if yes where are they situated?

There are a lot of solutions to create a tax-friendly construction.

[BlasterBates]

Hi All

I need some advise really on what other contractors believe should be done. As its still confusing me.

He is some background information, contract started April 2007 in Belgium for 3 months directly with the Client, no agencies involved. It has been renewed every 3 months since. Its now been renewed for a further 9 months from April 2008.

When I first started I looked at various companies that specialise in contractors working in belgium, none really fitted.

So I have spoken to a UK accountant that advised that the contract I was on was inside IR35, due to various reasons and if I were to stay in UK system that they recommend being self-employed. I actually travel back and fourth to UK every weekend.

As I have been working in Belgium over the 183 days that are allowed, I am not sure what sort of position I am now in for Taxes. Most of the UK contractors here where I work are actually going through there own Ltd companies or some sort of umbrella company etc.

Just after some advise from other contractors that have been working in Belgium for some length of time and how they deal with there taxes.

Thanks
Dave

Go and see a Belgium tax advisor and pay Belgium tax. You only started in 2007 so not a problem. Sort it out now. Later on you could get hammered by the Belgium authorities. You declare it in the UK anyway, so just make sure you make it clear that that income is liable for tax in Belgium.

You can operate your Ltd in Belgium but it does need to be registered. Your belgium Tax advisor should sort that out for you.

Never rely on a foreign tax advisor, you need help from a Belgian.

[themistry]

I have a six month contract starting Monday in Brussels, I intend to fly in Monday and out on a Friday, so here are some stupid but simple questions.

The 183 day rule is that actual days you are in the country or the nights you spend there?

I have found a business apartment that I can rent from 1st August for 500 Euros okay it is a shoe box, is that going to make me fall foul of the 183 days as the first three weeks I will be either hotel or B&B?

I guess the safest route is to fly in Mon out Friday and hotel or B&B for 4 nights per week.

Advice please and be gentle it is my first post.

Thanks

Lookup Pearl Systems.

They can work some magic as the Belgian system is very good if you know what you are doing.

TM

[Magic]

Contract in Belgium

I have a six month contract starting Monday in Brussels, I intend to fly in Monday and out on a Friday, so here are some stupid but simple questions.

The 183 day rule is that actual days you are in the country or the nights you spend there?

I have found a business apartment that I can rent from 1st August for 500 Euros okay it is a shoe box, is that going to make me fall foul of the 183 days as the first three weeks I will be either hotel or B&B?

I guess the safest route is to fly in Mon out Friday and hotel or B&B for 4 nights per week.

Advice please and be gentle it is my first post.

Thanks