Reply to: Contracting in The Hague (Netherlands)?

[themistry]

Is that to do with ring-fenced profits?

Isn't everything?

[oracleslave]

thanks Jubber,

wow the more I look into this the more complicated it gets!

I think I will put up a new post!

TM

Is that to do with ring-fenced profits?

[themistry]

thanks Jubber,

wow the more I look into this the more complicated it gets!

I think I will put up a new post!

TM

[Jubber]

sorry to bring this back up,

lets say you have a contract in the NL for 3 months.

If you only return to the UK twice a month but stay in hotels/b&bs would that fall foul of the local tax laws?

Alternatively, same scenario above, but rented a flat for 3 months?

The thought of living in a hotel is horrible, id need to rent a flat, but this I take it from what has been said, means im shagged from a tax perspective?

TM

From the above posts my take now would be to find out what the agency (and client) are happy with. If they are happy with your UK limited make sure you are in the NL less than 183 days in a tax year and do whatever you like.

[themistry]

sorry to bring this back up,

lets say you have a contract in the NL for 3 months.

If you only return to the UK twice a month but stay in hotels/b&bs would that fall foul of the local tax laws?

Alternatively, same scenario above, but rented a flat for 3 months?

The thought of living in a hotel is horrible, id need to rent a flat, but this I take it from what has been said, means im shagged from a tax perspective?

TM

[Fred Bloggs]

Yes, that's what I do. No probs and also know other consultants doing the same. One of my former collegues was investigated by the gestapo, but could easily prove his status. As long as your main base and tax residency is legitimately elsewhere and you pay tax there - No need to declare if you've got nothing to hide.

Thank you, that helps a lot.

[Turion]

So, staying 4 nights a week in a B&B is OK?

Yes, that's what I do. No probs and also know other consultants doing the same. One of my former collegues was investigated by the gestapo, but could easily prove his status. As long as your main base and tax residency is legitimately elsewhere and you pay tax there - No need to declare if you've got nothing to hide.

[Fred Bloggs]

No, The Germans apply their lesser form of tax residency for simply being present.

They will (in theory) apply full tax residency as soon as you take on an apartment rental.

The fact that someone has got away with not self declaring their residency status does not mean that it is the correct thing to do

tim

So, staying 4 nights a week in a B&B is OK?

[tim123]

They do if you go home every weekend / and or spend some of the time remote working. There is significant a difference between being phyically resident (like living there continuously for 6 months, taking long term rental leases >3 mnths, and opening local bank accounts) and being a travelling consultant who returns to his permanent residence and family each week. Doing this there is no problem at all with the German tax gestapo. Done it for 6+ months with Ltd Co. Some agencies can have a problem with this, and I avoid those that do.

No, The Germans apply their lesser form of tax residency for simply being present.

They will (in theory) apply full tax residency as soon as you take on an apartment rental.

The fact that someone has got away with not self declaring their residency status does not mean that it is the correct thing to do

tim

[Fred Bloggs]

Thanks for the clarifications. Next time I'm offered a good deal in NL, France or Germany I might just be tempted for 8 or 9 months. With the £ melting against the Euro, 800 Euro's a day is a fairly good deal I reckon.

[Turion]

No it's not a general thing.

I'm just about to leave Sweden after less than 6 months and they will recognise a rule like this.

However, the Germans most definately do not.


tim

They do if you go home every weekend / and or spend some of the time remote working. There is significant a difference between being phyically resident (like living there continuously for 6 months, taking long term rental leases >3 mnths, and opening local bank accounts) and being a travelling consultant who returns to his permanent residence and family each week. Doing this there is no problem at all with the German tax gestapo. Done it for 6+ months with Ltd Co. Some agencies can have a problem with this, and I avoid those that do.

[tim123]

So, you are in fact saying then that a person can work up to (180/4) 45 weeks a year in NL and stay in the UK tax system? Is this a general thing in the EU? It puts an entirely different spin on working in the EU if this is the case. I generally work 44 weeks a year and have turned down EU work in the past due to tax complications around the 183 day rules. Thanks.

No it's not a general thing.

I'm just about to leave Sweden after less than 6 months and they will recognise a rule like this.

However, the Germans most definately do not.

Never worked in NL so I don't know what they do.

tim

[kismet110]

^^^

Thanks agains guys for the posts, very informative. They initially wanted me to go over there for a face-to-face next week but I've persuaded the pimpette an initial telephone interview is a pre-requisite (!) and they've agreed to this so set for today.

The 'idea' of working in The Netherlands does appeal to me after years of daily grind in the City/CW but at least now if it does progress I know what to ask regards the logistics.

EDIT: couple more q's for those who have worked over there please; how much is accomodation (B&B type I guess, or maybe a large room in a flat?) and food/drinks? I'm sure it'll be cheaper than London ....

[Jubber]

I understood that the problem was with the client I was working for, not the agency. Basically the client told the agencies only to hire those who pay tax through Dutch Limited companies, or are willing to. If you are lucky enough to find a gig where the client is ignorant of the chain law or is willing to take the risk then great, fill your boots.

But on the other hand, I earned plenty, lived very well, lived in Amsterdam for a year (that is a delight in itself) and the experience brought on further contract work. I wish you luck as I would love to go back again.

J

[Turion]

Good luck with finding an agency that will do that. I know the agencies that were used on my gig wouldn't do it.

What they are frightened about is the scenario if you get another 6 month gig in Holland with another agency/client after their 3 month gig has finished and you swan off with all the cash and have broken the 183 day rule. Then the agency and the client and everyone in the 'chain' are liable for your uncollected taxes for that tax year (as I understand it).

Two gigs with different agencies would not be detectable by authorities unless you told them. The problem is agencies are trying to mitigate the minimal risk of investigation and even more minimal risk of tax penalties (for someone who gets deemed resident) by imposing a one size fits all solution which ignores the non-resident contractor. [Don't forget, they also get £££ large kickbacks from the mgt co they recommend].

It would be good if the PGC could come up with something. In the meantime ignore agencies that impose such solutions. The more they hear the 'no' word the more likely they are to change their ways