Reply to: Project Manager

[malvolio]

.... and the foundation exam is, without doubt, the easiest qualification I have earned since my 10m swimming badge. It's comically simple.

So is ITIL, actually. It's the multi-million pound certification and qualification industry that's been built up around it that makes it so difficult.

[Tensai]

I'd go for the foundation as a PM, but prob not waste my time beyond that.

.... and the foundation exam is, without doubt, the easiest qualification I have earned since my 10m swimming badge. It's comically simple.

[scooby]

Yes you're both correct. I've delivered transition projects into an ITIL environment but in all honesty you don't need a thorough understanding of ITIL to do that. I'd go for the foundation as a PM, but prob not waste my time beyond that.

P

Agree with this. my last role was implementing ITIL framework. they have Bus Analysts to write the processes, and i just delivered the requriements. i only have foundation ITIL. the ITIL practitioner is really for Service Managers...

[scooby]

Right. I've got a mate who has just transferred from technical (IT Support) to project management for a IT company.

He's hoping to do this for x years (about 2) and transfer into contracting.

What should I tell him to focus on. Will his PM jobs be limited to x technology that he has used (or seen used) or does it not matter.

Will his lack of technical knowledge (i.e. not being a developer) hinder him so should he start learning C# / .net etc to help him on his way.

Or should be focus on paper quals in the next 2 years (ITIL and PRINCE2).


Oh, and no jokes about PMs being useless so it doesn't matter etc. I've already got those covered.

I'm a PM and several others here are too. we're Prince2 and i have ITIL. i'm ex techy but that was 5+yrs since now.

if he's good, he'll blag the techy side and manage the techies to do it. get Prince2 Practitioner to start and think about ITIL after that.

[Peter Loew]

If a PM job spec wants ITIL awareness it's probably because the project will be delivered into an ITIL service delivery framework, and the PM needs to understand how that works so the end-product can integrate smoothly.

HTH

Yes you're both correct. I've delivered transition projects into an ITIL environment but in all honesty you don't need a thorough understanding of ITIL to do that. I'd go for the foundation as a PM, but prob not waste my time beyond that.

P

[Torran]

I keep saying it, one day people will listen. It's now what you know, it's what you can deliver. I've worked with PMs with PRINCE2, ITIL Managers and a string of other courses who have wrecked programmes with their complete lack of planning and /or people skills. I've worked with mad Irishmen with no qualifications in anything other than piano playing who have built entire datacentres to time and budget. My last measurable role was putting 1800 servers through a rolling 13-week migration programme 15 at a time without dropping any and hitting all the required deadlines, but I've never taken a Prince exam in my life.

Good PMs are like good drivers - you never notice them.

QFT

[Tensai]

BTW, since when was ITIL a PM qualification?

If a PM job spec wants ITIL awareness it's probably because the project will be delivered into an ITIL service delivery framework, and the PM needs to understand how that works so the end-product can integrate smoothly.

HTH

[badger7579]

Worked differently for me. I had no PM qualifications when I first started PM contracting and only about 3 years PM experience. Got my first PM contract and then became a PRINCE 2 Practitioner.

BTW, since when was ITIL a PM qualification?

P

You're quite right ITIL is not a PM qualification but most IT projects, when they go live are going to come under the management of ITIL (assuming the company is using ITIL) so therefore having an understanding of ITIL is useful for the PM and the client.

[Peter Loew]

Worked differently for me. I had no PM qualifications when I first started PM contracting and only about 3 years PM experience. Got my first PM contract and then became a PRINCE 2 Practitioner.

BTW, since when was ITIL a PM qualification?

P

[badger7579]

Just basing this question on my experience I spent 4 years in a technical analyst role for an oil company and then moved into PM for the next 3-4 years working for the same company.

I left that secure job and started contracting with the intention of continuing the PM role. Unfortunately I didn't have any PM qualifications (Absolutely vital if you want contract PM roles.) so I took on what to me was a down grade taking a 3rd line support role while I took the PRINCE2 and ITIL exams. I completed these and have not looked back since.

My advice to your mate is do the PM role in his present company for the 2 years and get as much training and experience out of them as possible before leaving. That was my only regret. If you look at the majority of contract adverts PRINCE2 and ITIL are prerequisites.

P.s PM's are not all useless tossers and I have met many good ones in my career. I'm sure there are as many useless developers and analysts as there are PM's..

[Tensai]

PRINCE2, provided it is either public sector or they already use it. Otherwise, don't bother with anything.

Mmmmm.... not sure I agree. Like most contracts through agencies, you've got to tick the boxes on the client spec, especially starting out. I'd get PMP and PRINCE2 as a minimum (they're not difficult... they're aimed at PM's FFS) and back it up with a couple of tech qualifications as well. Like WHS above, if you can show some technical knowledge then you have less chance of Charlie-Foxtrotting the project through ignorance.

Once you have the contacts and experience, you can pooh-pooh the certs and play up your strengths.

Also, in my limited experience, it's hard to switch between apps and infrastructure PM roles, but industry knowledge goes a long way.

HTH

[malvolio]

I keep saying it, one day people will listen. It's now what you know, it's what you can deliver. I've worked with PMs with PRINCE2, ITIL Managers and a string of other courses who have wrecked programmes with their complete lack of planning and /or people skills. I've worked with mad Irishmen with no qualifications in anything other than piano playing who have built entire datacentres to time and budget. My last measurable role was putting 1800 servers through a rolling 13-week migration programme 15 at a time without dropping any and hitting all the required deadlines, but I've never taken a Prince exam in my life.

Good PMs are like good drivers - you never notice them.

[BrowneIssue]

Right. I've got a mate who has just transferred from technical (IT Support) to project management for a IT company.

He's hoping to do this for x years (about 2) and transfer into contracting.

What should I tell him to focus on.

PRINCE2, provided it is either public sector or they already use it.

Otherwise, don't bother with anything. Very few of the PMs I have worked with have had much appropriate training or experience. Admittedly they were generally all tulipe, but they didn't know that so they were happy.

It'll take ClientCo at least 2 years to get rid of him anyway.

[miffy]

Oi! I'm a PM. Its just use logistics PMs are a cut above

That I can believe.

Most IT PM's are just buffoons. I've only worked with 3 good ones in my entire career. It's shocking.

IT PM's are just selling fresh air. Most of them can't even identify where the obvious risks are for example.

[Sockpuppet]

If he could do it, anyone can.

Oi! I'm a PM. Its just use logistics PMs are a cut above