Reply to: Whose telling porkies?

[BlasterBates]

Basically you should decide your own rate, going high if the market is good and you can get a renewal no problem, or low if you're out of work; the adverts just give ballpark figures to avoid wasting time negotiating with contractors looking for much higher rates. What margin an agency earns is up to the agency. In any case you don't know what the agency charges, they all offer different rates to a client. Some will try to compete on rate. Others will go for the best candidate.

[BrilloPad]

Here's the story. And please don't forget I'm a relative newbie!

Interviewed this morning and wowed Clientco.

Pimp had intimated that the gig pays £370 - £390 a day which I wouldn't go for as it's far too cheap.

I saw on the interviewer's pad that Agent was charging £500 per day.

What do I go in at? I was thinking around the £430 - £450 mark, or is that too high?

I remember once I had a job where agent got fixed margin. rate negotiations between me and clientco though. so agent told me how much clientco were recruiting at - about 20% more than I was getting. I asked for 20% more and got it.

I did ask very very subtley...

[TheFaQQer]

I'd say £430. So start at £450, accept £430.

£430 to you, £70 to agency gives the agency a margin of 15%. Some will be happy with that, and some will not - I think that the S3 gross margins for the company are higher than that, would you believe.

£430 sounds reasonable.

[Sockpuppet]

I'd say £430. So start at £450, accept £430.

[51st State]

Advice on Rate ...

Here's the story. And please don't forget I'm a relative newbie!

Interviewed this morning and wowed Clientco.

Pimp had intimated that the gig pays £370 - £390 a day which I wouldn't go for as it's far too cheap.

I saw on the interviewer's pad that Agent was charging £500 per day.

What do I go in at? I was thinking around the £430 - £450 mark, or is that too high?

[configman]

Doesn't really mean anything... For example Search IT may have told the client that they can get somebody to do the work for £600 a day whereas Capita have told the client that they can get somebody for £700 a day. NES may be then sourcing contractors for Capita so that capita pays them £600 a day, etc. etc.

It's not always as clean cut as you may think.

That is very true, it is not necessarily people telling porkies. My thread title should be something different. As a business if I do my research I can end up with a far better rate and/or chance by searching for all adverts for the same role is the point I am making. What I have found out is the client has not specified a rate but has a history of paying 5-600 a day for that role, with that knowledge I am in a position if I choose to put myself forward with realistic expectations to the recruiter and client, and a rate we would be happy with from the outset. I will always walk away if I was put forward at one rate and offered significantly lower unless for example there was opportunity to gain commercial experience of something new that was negotiated into the contract. Now I am in the know it would have been commercial suicide to submit myself for the lower rate - and possibly the higher rate as well. Either I would work below the market rate or stand no chance of getting the contract.

There are a lot of things I consider before putting myself forward and rate is not the top of the list - high but not the top.

[Ardesco]

If you need an example of why to check each agency out look at the varying rates of the following contracts on Jobserve. The rates vary from inspecified and £400 - £700 per day.

Search IT http://www.jobserve.com/W4807BF4C99573348.job Market Rates

Glotel http://www.jobserve.com/W7ECC64B4E3829CF8.job £600-700 per day

Capita Resourcing http://www.jobserve.com/W75542653B064066B.job £400-500 per day

Real Time Consultants http://www.jobserve.com/W0160E71630E6FB99.job No rate specified

NES IT http://www.jobserve.com/WF1DF645884432487.job No rate specified

Doesn't really mean anything... For example Search IT may have told the client that they can get somebody to do the work for £600 a day whereas Capita have told the client that they can get somebody for £700 a day. NES may be then sourcing contractors for Capita so that capita pays them £600 a day, etc. etc.

It's not always as clean cut as you may think.

[51st State]

Whose telling porkies

Who's

Unless you are asking who the telling porkies (whatever they may be) belong to, of course ....

[configman]

I understand where you're going with this configman but it is too simplistic to look only at the rate. There's also the contractual issues and IR35 to consider.

My view:

1 - You should already know your own rate, so this will whittle down the number of contracts you apply for straight away.
2 - Always get a copy of the standard agent contract before your CV goes forward.
3 - Negotiate appropriately the rate and t's and c's.
4 - Unless your back is against the wall, always be prepared to walk away.

All IMHO of course...

Yes there is a lot of other things to consider and they have been. I can include your list and the rate of commission that the recruiter is making which leaves room for me to negotiate more, I could consider that one recruiter is inflating the rate only to squash it if an offer came in, or that one of the recruiters is not actually sourced to find the contractor.

I know my own rate but that can change depending on the market conditions - which are best researched by looking at the job boards. In this instance it is widely varied so I asked all recruiters quite bluntly to justify why I should go through them an not the others.

[configman]

Your assuming that you'd get the £600/day rate. The agent could just use a high rate to attract people, get some CVs then ask for a lower rate when the client refuses to pay.

It is a trick I am familiar with, hence why I asked for each recruiter to justify why they could get the rate they advertised. I don't need to tell you who has not responded!!

[Sockpuppet]

There is a difference of £300 per day!!!!!!!!

Your assuming that you'd get the £600/day rate. The agent could just use a high rate to attract people, get some CVs then ask for a lower rate when the client refuses to pay.

[ratewhore]

I understand where you're going with this configman but it is too simplistic to look only at the rate. There's also the contractual issues and IR35 to consider.

My view:

1 - You should already know your own rate, so this will whittle down the number of contracts you apply for straight away.
2 - Always get a copy of the standard agent contract before your CV goes forward.
3 - Negotiate appropriately the rate and t's and c's.
4 - Unless your back is against the wall, always be prepared to walk away.

All IMHO of course...

[configman]

Not quite sure what your point is. Rates change between agents, thats a given. Don't apply for contracts where you're not happy with the rate and, when negotiating, only accept the rate you're prepared to do the work for...

There is a difference of £300 per day!!!!!!!!

The point is this highlights why you do your homework before applying to ensure you get the best rate for you and with someone who has been sourced to fill the contract. It is not necessarily a complaint, but as result of asking the recruiters involved why the difference I have been able to find out who is best to apply with and at what rate to go forward for. I have also found out what is realistically on offer so no time wasting.

How else would you suggest that I found out the REAL rate on offer? I'm a business and if 5 salesmen come in with the same product I will tell them of each others offer so I end up with the best for me.

[ratewhore]

Not quite sure what your point is. Rates change between agents, thats a given. Don't apply for contracts where you're not happy with the rate and, when negotiating, only accept the rate you're prepared to do the work for...

[confusedkiwi]

I had this too - one agency quoted £350 -£400 for a role, another one said £400 - £550 for the same role...

What a margin the first one must be making!