umbrella LLP - Self Employed or Employed?

[Moscow Mule]

Just to clear up the confusion, with NLL LLP (which is what I think you're asking about) you are classified as self employed.

I'm no longer with them, and they were pretty rubbish when I left - took them a while to work out they needed to pay all of the tax/ni they had withheld for the year.

[MrRobin]

All income, not dividends...

If you are being taxed fully as an employee (i.e. paying PAYE, EE's NI, ER's NI) then being outside IR35 is irrelevant. Your profit should be £0 since all income is paid out as salary (and taxes)

[scooby]

This does sound suspect... how does your 'umbrella' work out what to pay you? Is it all taxed as income, or are you taking a small salary and the rest as dividends?

All income, not dividends...

Someone offered me LLP a few months back. Although I may well be associated with dodgy (i.e. going bust) companies I am not associated with dodgy practices so I got some advice. Company who approached me said that since LLP is usually used by accountants and lawyers then it is "safe" as the revenue would have to come after them if they came after the IT contractor LLPs. Legal advice I got is that is flawed logice since aacountants, lawyers etc. work for multiple clients at one time mainly from their own offices, IT contractors (as a rule) work for a single client at a time on client site, therefore completely different set up. Do not touch with barge pole.

Company in question wouldn't be named after a day of the week would they?

Nope, but they're no longer a limited company. they did do a so called full contract check to ensure outside IR35 and even got my contract changed to be outside...

just concerned with the latest crack down, that it will be me who get slapped and not them!!! time for me to sort out and go ltd me thinks...

[Sockpuppet]

LLPs exist becuase there are rules about accountants/solicitors being a business afaik.

I.e. an solicitor cannot be a Ltd company.

[WindyAnna]

Someone offered me LLP a few months back. Although I may well be associated with dodgy (i.e. going bust) companies I am not associated with dodgy practices so I got some advice. Company who approached me said that since LLP is usually used by accountants and lawyers then it is "safe" as the revenue would have to come after them if they came after the IT contractor LLPs. Legal advice I got is that is flawed logice since aacountants, lawyers etc. work for multiple clients at one time mainly from their own offices, IT contractors (as a rule) work for a single client at a time on client site, therefore completely different set up. Do not touch with barge pole.

Company in question wouldn't be named after a day of the week would they?

[malvolio]

Well dodgy - "Profit to date"?? What the hell is that? How can you calculate profit until year end?

Then again an LLP is effectively two or more self-emplyed people in patnership. They don't pay dividends AFAIK either (do they??), but they may be able to work a rolling profit margin.

I think someone is being rogered and has only just noticed...

[MrRobin]

MSC alert!



This does sound suspect... how does your 'umbrella' work out what to pay you? Is it all taxed as income, or are you taking a small salary and the rest as dividends?

[Sockpuppet]

'MSC'? havent they been phased out by the IR? does that mean LLP are illegal?

Or have i just got it totally wrong?

Not too sure on the LLP model but assuming its the same as a Ltd if you are not in control of the company that you work for/own and are taking divs I'd say your a MSC.

So if you are not in control of the company (i.e. you hold the cheque book / make payments) then you should be paying full tax / paye.

[scooby]

'MSC'? havent they been phased out by the IR? does that mean LLP are illegal?

Or have i just got it totally wrong?

[Sockpuppet]

You're not with an umbrella. Unless you pay full PAYE/Tax. Being inside and outside IR35 has nothing to do with it. If you are using the LLP to not pay full PAYE/Tax that is an MSC if you are not running it yourself etc

If you are with an umbrella you are employed. If you are not you are employeed, but own a company with a greater than x% of the shares. Which mortgage companies treat as self-employed.

[scooby]

am with an umbrella and classed as outside IR35 so am using the LLP option they offer.

How does this stand me for employment status and mortgages? i think i may be self-employed as the payslip i get says 'profit to date' not 'taxable income' etc...

help please?