Contract inside or outside the IR35

[Robwg]

Use an Umbrella for first three months if nwe to contracting to see if you like the lifestyle and it fits in with your way of life.

After that - go for a ltd - whether inside IR35 or outside.

That would be my advice.

[Bluebird]

So the best is to go LTD instead of with an umbrella right? I was reading that some companies set you up with everything you need, and also take care of your accounts.

Am reading through the other forum to find some good companies like these. Any suggestions?

SJD & Nixon Williams get recommended here quite a lot.

But don't forget - running your own company involves more than if you go through an umbrella.

If you are outside of IR35 [ and to a certain extent inside ] there are financial rewards - but you have to do a bit of the work yourself as well.

[oracleslave]

So the best is to go LTD instead of with an umbrella right? I was reading that some companies set you up with everything you need, and also take care of your accounts.

Am reading through the other forum to find some good companies like these. Any suggestions?

try the accountants directory on here

[JohannM]

Not all of the answer though. It doesn't apply becuase you are paying full PAYE/NICs anyway so there's no point in looking at IR35. However if your contract is justificably outside IR35, you will be spending all that tax for no real reason. Even inside IR35, you get a marginally better return with your own company, since accountants fees are usually cheaper than Umbrellas, and you don't have all that pratting around with holiday pay retention and so on.

So the best is to go LTD instead of with an umbrella right? I was reading that some companies set you up with everything you need, and also take care of your accounts.

Am reading through the other forum to find some good companies like these. Any suggestions?

[Devlin]

But, do you guys even bother asking the agent whether the contract is inside or outside?

They must have a fair idea?

Even some of the most reputable agents don't have a clue about what IR35 actually is, most of them rely on the likes of Lawspeed, etc. to give them a standard contract. If they are aware that it exists that is a good sign imo.

I always make a point of saying that my rate assumes their contract is outside IR35 so at least if they do have a clue they won't just try and palm off some contract on me that is just easiest for them!

[malvolio]

If you go through an umbrella - IR35 doesn't apply.

Not all of the answer though. It doesn't apply becuase you are paying full PAYE/NICs anyway so there's no point in looking at IR35. However if your contract is justificably outside IR35, you will be spending all that tax for no real reason. Even inside IR35, you get a marginally better return with your own company, since accountants fees are usually cheaper than Umbrellas, and you don't have all that pratting around with holiday pay retention and so on.

[Bluebird]

thanks Devlin

I did some reading an it seems that if you work under an umbrella company, its very difficult to get a contract outside the IR35, since you are actually a PAYE with them.

So I guess the question for me is should I go with an umbrella company or open up an LTD.

Thanks again

If you go through an umbrella - IR35 doesn't apply.

[fridge]

I don't trust the agent on IR35 issues, so why ask?

If they tell me that it is, then I tell them that I have it checked out anyway. There is no point in them telling me that it's in or out, since most of them haven't got a clue anyway.

Get B&C to check it out for you.

[TheFaQQer]

I don't trust the agent on IR35 issues, so why ask?

If they tell me that it is, then I tell them that I have it checked out anyway. There is no point in them telling me that it's in or out, since most of them haven't got a clue anyway.

[monkeyBoy32]

But, do you guys even bother asking the agent whether the contract is inside or outside?

They must have a fair idea?

[JohannM]

Agents will tell you what they think you want to hear.

Most will tell you that the contract is outside IR35 - remember that it's both the contract and the working practices that determine inside or outside IR35, though.

Make your own mind up - I send my contracts to Qdos to get them checked out. Others use Bauer and Cottrell for theirs, some recommend Lawspeed, or SJD. There are a few out there that will check a contract for you - do a search here and you'll find what people say about them all.

Thanks Faqqer.

I guess you have to have a LTD company though eh? Cause with Umbrella Company, effectively you are a PAYE employer with them, and there is no way to avoid the IR35, is that so?

[TheFaQQer]

Agents will tell you what they think you want to hear.

Most will tell you that the contract is outside IR35 - remember that it's both the contract and the working practices that determine inside or outside IR35, though.

Make your own mind up - I send my contracts to Qdos to get them checked out. Others use Bauer and Cottrell for theirs, some recommend Lawspeed, or SJD. There are a few out there that will check a contract for you - do a search here and you'll find what people say about them all.

[JohannM]

thanks Devlin

I did some reading an it seems that if you work under an umbrella company, its very difficult to get a contract outside the IR35, since you are actually a PAYE with them.

So I guess the question for me is should I go with an umbrella company or open up an LTD.

Thanks again

[Devlin]

Hi all,

Will the agency tell you if the contract is inside or outside the IR35 or do you have to determine it yourself?

Thanks for you help and time

Johann

They may tell you it is outside IR35, but I wouldn't believe them! Get an independant check done with a specialist.

[JohannM]

Hi all,

Will the agency tell you if the contract is inside or outside the IR35 or do you have to determine it yourself?

Thanks for you help and time

Johann