Reply to: iBalance umbrella company - anyone?

[lexington_spurs]

I'm sure I'm just being stupid (I am from Dorset...)
<bracing myself for a battering... >

My wife's been to Bournemouth.

In Dorset?

Yes, she'd thoroughly recommend it.

[malvolio]

All PAYE brollies will operate within the remit of ir35...

No, get it right, all umbrella companies pay you as an employee (except they use your earnings to do it) so IR35 doesn't even enter the equation. Which is what makes the bit I quoted a little mysterious, unless it's a leftover from some earlier MSC service that they've closed down.

[bangface]

If you look hard enough, they all do, even P4 in the old days. But the headline is as stated, and that is designed to trap the unwary. I still think it is a misleading statement - apart from anything else it does nothing to persuade HMG that most of us aren't doing it for the tax benefits but reinforces the MGB stereotype.

Also, go to the next page. How can they pay you differently if your are "outside IR35" then??? Umbrellas have to pay via normal PAYE, surely...

All PAYE brollies will operate within the remit of ir35...

[malvolio]

[flameproof suit on]

Actually looking at it they seem to be one of the better ones. They are quite clear you do need to spend the money.

Edit: and the myths of which we generally speak: http://www.pro-corporate-online.co.uk/balance/myths.asp

If you look hard enough, they all do, even P4 in the old days. But the headline is as stated, and that is designed to trap the unwary. I still think it is a misleading statement - apart from anything else it does nothing to persuade HMG that most of us aren't doing it for the tax benefits but reinforces the MGB stereotype.

Also, go to the next page. How can they pay you differently if your are "outside IR35" then??? Umbrellas have to pay via normal PAYE, surely...

[ASB]

Sorry, but the clear statement "Claim expenses to reduce your tax bill " is not inadvertant mistyping, it's a deliberate attempt to con people into thinking they can earn money for nothing. You can't, and I for one am not going to suggest to people who can't understand that simple fact that using a company that allows such misleading statements on its primary shop window is a seriously bad idea. You might also ponder on the fact that such practices and publicity are underneath all the grief we get with IR35 and S660, since HMG sees them as clear evidence we are merely trying to cheat the taxman at any and all opportunities.

And apart from that, they are charging more than my accountant does for a lesser service and you end up with 20% less money than running your own company. So not exactly what I call a bargain.

You asked the question, I gave an informed - if not very diplomatic - answer. If you don't like it, I could care less, I will not change my opinion of this company, nor any other one that uses the same approach. But hey, it's your money...

[flameproof suit on]

Actually looking at it they seem to be one of the better ones. They are quite clear you do need to spend the money.

Edit: and the myths of which we generally speak: http://www.pro-corporate-online.co.uk/balance/myths.asp

[richard-af]

Lotech - I have sent you a PM suggesting we discuss your issues, keen to see if we can improve by listening to Contractors. Vicky

Might be wise to pretend to be out if he comes knocking.

[Parasol_Service]

The reason for asking about these guys is because they're close to where I live, and I'd have more trust in a company I could go and visit, see who's running the place etc. By no means foolproof but it might give some peace of mind...

By all means come and see us Salazie - sunny Warrington awaits you
In all seriousness if you would like to come and see how it all works and report back then more than happy to oblige you.

[Parasol_Service]

Lotech - I have sent you a PM suggesting we discuss your issues, keen to see if we can improve by listening to Contractors. Vicky

[Lotech]

[QUOTE=malvolio]Now listen carefully, I'll only say this once...


Umbrella companies know all this, so any that advertise their services as saving you tax, especially via expense claims, are clearly lying, and you should not deal with them because that is not ethical business practice, it is simply trying to mislead the uninformed.

There is a certain Umbrella probably the best known that has again raised prices but the service is terrible. Parasites !!

[Sausage Surprise]

Don't know why people are bothering to reply. Seems like the poster made up their mind that they wanted to go with the locally based one, ages ago.

[malvolio]

Sorry, but the clear statement "Claim expenses to reduce your tax bill " is not inadvertant mistyping, it's a deliberate attempt to con people into thinking they can earn money for nothing. You can't, and I for one am not going to suggest to people who can't understand that simple fact that using a company that allows such misleading statements on its primary shop window is a seriously bad idea. You might also ponder on the fact that such practices and publicity are underneath all the grief we get with IR35 and S660, since HMG sees them as clear evidence we are merely trying to cheat the taxman at any and all opportunities.

And apart from that, they are charging more than my accountant does for a lesser service and you end up with 20% less money than running your own company. So not exactly what I call a bargain.

You asked the question, I gave an informed - if not very diplomatic - answer. If you don't like it, I could care less, I will not change my opinion of this company, nor any other one that uses the same approach. But hey, it's your money...

[salazie]

A poorly-worded comment on a website does't necessarily make for a company which will 'promise everything, [not] deliver and then leave you with an unpaid bill'. For some companies word of mouth and local reputation count for more than a polished website - if you look up the websites of small local companies you'll often find poorly designed, out of date sites which obviously haven't been looked at for years and have lots of poor information. It doesn't make them a bad company.

However I can't comment on the company in question (hence the reason for this thread in the first place - in case anyone could) and will more than likely go with Parasol again. Doesn't stop me hoping someone's used them in the past though and can tell me that a company close to my home are either recommended, or due to personal experience one to avoid.


Here are two similar building companies. One employs hundreds of people nationwide, comes recommended, does a good job causes no problems. A couple of years later you need some more work done however in that time there have been issues with their main competitor which makes you wary of using such large impersonal companies in the future.

The other is a small, local, 10 year old business, not as slick as the big boys and with a battered van and far fewer customers, but you're convinced after meeting them and end up being extremely satisfied with their service. A year later the first company goes bust owing lots of people a lot of money.

It's ok not to talk to people like they're morons you know...

[malvolio]

I'm sure I'm just being stupid (I am from Dorset...) but what's wrong with what they've put there? Isn't that exactly what umbrella companies do - take expenses off your gross pay thus reducing your tax bill?

<bracing myself for a battering... >

Now listen carefully, I'll only say this once...

You do not claim expenses in order to reduce your tax bill. You claim expenses because you have spent money of your own in order to do work for someone else, either your employer or your own company, and such expenses are tax free. So if you have a genuine expense claim you should not pay tax on it. What you can't do is claim expenses for things that are not wholly and necessarily for the purposes of business, like lunch when you are commuting which you would have bought anyway - you can claim them but you pay tax on them like they were earned income (hence, Benefit in Kind). There are no magic handouts - after all, why should I as a taxpayer fund your lunchtime sandwich.

Umbrella companies know all this, so any that advertise their services as saving you tax, especially via expense claims, are clearly lying, and you should not deal with them because that is not ethical business practice, it is simply trying to mislead the uninformed.

Here are two similar builders. One comes recommended, does a good job causes no problems. The other gives you a rough quote, promises everything, doesn't deliver and then leaves you with an unpaid bill. Understand?

[salazie]

I'm sure I'm just being stupid (I am from Dorset...) but what's wrong with what they've put there? Isn't that exactly what umbrella companies do - take expenses off your gross pay thus reducing your tax bill?

<bracing myself for a battering... >

[malvolio]

Red flag warning madmad -

Claim expenses to reduce your tax bill

Walk away now. Seriously...