Reply to: Hays - Self Billing?

[ChrisTheDBA]

... They say it won't affect IR35 and that it is compulsory for all their contractors...

I've just been transfered to Hays at renewal time by my previous agent and they wanted me to use self billing, but it was NOT compulsory.

[KathyWoolfe]

Your accountant raises your invoices?

Yes

[Bluebird]

Disguised MSC Alert!

whats an extra 20% tax between friends....

[Dark Black]

I am a Ltd and my accountants raise the invoices sent to the agency (all I do is fill in timesheets ) and then send me copies.

run away! run away!

[Lockhouse]

Your accountant raises your invoices?

Disguised MSC Alert!

[Epiphone]

I am a Ltd and my accountants raise the invoices sent to the agency (all I do is fill in timesheets ) and then send me copies.

Your accountant raises your invoices?

[TheFaQQer]

Use the self billing (make sure they get the VAT right) but send an invoice anyway. What they choose to do with it is their business. At least you'll have an invoice for your records.

6.3 Main rules for self-billees

If you are a self-billee, you must:

* not raise sales invoices for any transactions with your self-biller for the period of your self-billing agreement with him. The agreement will last either for a period of 12 months or, if you have a contract with your customer, for the duration of that contract;

So, the guidance says that you MUST NOT raise an invoice, if you are signed up to self billing.

[KathyWoolfe]

Cheers, that is exactly what I plan to do.

P

I am a Ltd and my accountants raise the invoices sent to the agency (all I do is fill in timesheets ) and then send me copies.

[OrangeHopper]

Just a note.

Hays calculate the the VAT on each line item rather than on the net total. This can result in a difference in VAT if you use the latter.

Be prepared to change your copy of your invoice because it is easier than getting them to change the VAT calculation.

[Peter Loew]

Use the self billing (make sure they get the VAT right) but send an invoice anyway. What they choose to do with it is their business. At least you'll have an invoice for your records.

Cheers, that is exactly what I plan to do.

P

[Epiphone]

Use the self billing (make sure they get the VAT right) but send an invoice anyway. What they choose to do with it is their business. At least you'll have an invoice for your records.

[TheFaQQer]

They say it won't affect IR35 and that it is compulsory for all their contractors. They also say the process has been designed by the HMRC.

From the HMRC document:

6.2 What if I do not want to agree to self-billing?

We will not oblige you to agree to self-billing. However, your customer may make agreement to self-billing a condition of your making supplies to him.

So you may have to allow them to do self billing to accept the contract. It's not an HMRC requirement, but the client can make it a condition of you being a supplier to them.

[Bluebird]

Given the terminology they use, I would agree with that. But then this is no different to what Giant, or any other managed service company would provide.

we're getting confused here, there are two tests to pass.

1. Are you Inside IR35 ?
2. Are you an MSC ?

If either answer is yes, then you pay full whack PAYE.

I think what you are trying to say is that Self-Billing is a good thing for IR35, but possibly a bad thibk for MSC.

As Hays are predominantly a Employment Business, then they are not seen as an MSCP, so you should be ok for the MSC thing.

The difference between them and Giant is that Giant are NOT primarily an employment business or accountancy.

[Peter Loew]

I'm not so sure about the IR35 thing, HMRC stipulate that self-billing is between a "customer" and a "supplier" - surely if you are a "supplier of goods or services" that puts you OUTSIDE rather than inside ?

Given the terminology they use, I would agree with that. But then this is no different to what Giant, or any other managed service company would provide.

[Bluebird]

I can't find anything in that HMRC page that states self billing does not implicate you inside IR35, to me it seems like if another company is raising your invoices then it's one step closer to being an employee.

I think I'll see if I can skip this and invoice as normal.

P

I'm not so sure about the IR35 thing, HMRC stipulate that self-billing is between a "customer" and a "supplier" - surely if you are a "supplier of goods or services" that puts you OUTSIDE rather than inside ?