Hays - Self Billing?

**FiveTimes** · 9 July 2007, 14:06

Originally posted by Peter Loew

Hi All,

I have a contract through Hays and they have just sent me some info along with a contract to sign. Part of the agreement is that I conform to their self-billing exercise. This basically means that I don't have to invoice them - all I have to do is raise a time-sheet and they do the invoicing.

They say it won't affect IR35 and that it is compulsory for all their contractors. They also say the process has been designed by the HMRC.

As standard business practice I want to invoice all my clients as I have an LTD and need to keep such records - does anyone work through Hays or use this self billing thing, what do you guys think?

P

I use self billing although not with Hayes, and it seems to work well. No errors so far. I keep a copy of my timehseet and every friday when the pay goes in I get sent a self billing remitance. This goes to my accountant and job done. Less paper work and a lot easier.

**bangface** · 9 July 2007, 14:13

Originally posted by Peter Loew

Hi All,

I have a contract through Hays and they have just sent me some info along with a contract to sign. Part of the agreement is that I conform to their self-billing exercise. This basically means that I don't have to invoice them - all I have to do is raise a time-sheet and they do the invoicing.

They say it won't affect IR35 and that it is compulsory for all their contractors. They also say the process has been designed by the HMRC.

As standard business practice I want to invoice all my clients as I have an LTD and need to keep such records - does anyone work through Hays or use this self billing thing, what do you guys think?

P

There is nothing stopping you from raising invoices in a historical capacity, i.e you don't send them to Hays, but you retain a history of invoicing for your own purpose which makes it easy for you to then offset the payments in from Hays against the invoices you have already raised for your own records!

**Xenophon** · 9 July 2007, 14:17

Have a look at this

**OrangeHopper** · 9 July 2007, 14:27

I'm with Hays and I simply stated I did not want to take advantage of their self-billing facility when asked recently.

**Xenophon** · 9 July 2007, 14:30

Originally posted by OrangeHopper

I'm with Hays and I simply stated I did not want to take advantage of their self-billing facility when asked recently.

That would be my approach should I ever be asked to use a self-billing setup.

**Peter Loew** · 9 July 2007, 14:43

I can't find anything in that HMRC page that states self billing does not implicate you inside IR35, to me it seems like if another company is raising your invoices then it's one step closer to being an employee.

I think I'll see if I can skip this and invoice as normal.

P

**Bluebird** · 9 July 2007, 14:46

Originally posted by Peter Loew

I can't find anything in that HMRC page that states self billing does not implicate you inside IR35, to me it seems like if another company is raising your invoices then it's one step closer to being an employee.

I think I'll see if I can skip this and invoice as normal.

P

I'm not so sure about the IR35 thing, HMRC stipulate that self-billing is between a "customer" and a "supplier" - surely if you are a "supplier of goods or services" that puts you OUTSIDE rather than inside ?

**Peter Loew** · 9 July 2007, 14:50

Originally posted by Bluebird

I'm not so sure about the IR35 thing, HMRC stipulate that self-billing is between a "customer" and a "supplier" - surely if you are a "supplier of goods or services" that puts you OUTSIDE rather than inside ?

Given the terminology they use, I would agree with that. But then this is no different to what Giant, or any other managed service company would provide.

**Bluebird** · 9 July 2007, 14:57

Originally posted by Peter Loew

Given the terminology they use, I would agree with that. But then this is no different to what Giant, or any other managed service company would provide.

we're getting confused here, there are two tests to pass.

1. Are you Inside IR35 ?
2. Are you an MSC ?

If either answer is yes, then you pay full whack PAYE.

I think what you are trying to say is that Self-Billing is a good thing for IR35, but possibly a bad thibk for MSC.

As Hays are predominantly a Employment Business, then they are not seen as an MSCP, so you should be ok for the MSC thing.

The difference between them and Giant is that Giant are NOT primarily an employment business or accountancy.

Hays - Self Billing?