Opinions Please

[vyas]

You dont ask .... you dont get...

good for you alfab

Good luck

[alfabs]

A little patience (in truth quite alot) and all is well, whilst I did not get the full rate I quoted, I did manage to increase it by £35/day and have a longer term contract (6 not 3), in the end a result all round BUT I will take note and try never to use the same tactic again.

Filling out paperwork as I write this and looking forward to starting on Tuesday

R

[alfabs]

Interesting comments..... a general thanks.

If you've been contracting 9 years then you should have a nice pot of cash somewhere

9 years is a long time i agree, pots of cash hmmmm i wonder how many contractors have those.... not many i'd imagine. I personally have sufficient reserves for the time being.

Don't be panicing yet, stay calm and see how it plays out

I'm not and thanks for your comments, I believe every situation is different, size of client, size of agent, personalities.... all these and more can be factored in to the scenario of tieing up a contract.

Don't mean to be harsh, but it seems like you were a tad naive.

I totally agree in this case naivity got the better of me, i should have known better, we live and learn i guess, I was however offered the job on the spot, i should have been a little calmer i guess, reading the comments here i hope my brain (small though it is) soaks up the advice.

When all is said ... the fat lady as yet to sing on this one, I'll update as soon as a conclusion is reached.

Thanks

R

[tim123]

I disagree Tim, you can squeeze them down to 10% and even single figures after a few renewals and one offered to do a job I had on a plate for 6%. They wont walk especially if it's a high paying job.

I don't think a comparison with a job you found yourself quite counts. There is no salesman looking for his cut in that instance.

tim

[lukemg]

Most agencies will walk away from a margin of less than 15%. By the time they have factored the invoices, paid the office overheads and taken on the risk of the client not paying at all (for whatever reason) there's nothing left in the pot for them.

If clients want to recruit through agencies they have to pay them. If they don't like the margins charged then they should have thought of that before engaging them. 20% is not out of line with the norm, the fact that it comes to 'thousands' is just how it is if you take on a 'freelance' without thinking ahead.

Do you work for free?

tim

I disagree Tim, you can squeeze them down to 10% and even single figures after a few renewals and one offered to do a job I had on a plate for 6%. They wont walk especially if it's a high paying job.

[Jawz]

I never thought the agencies percentage was any big secret between agency and client. I mean the client know what they are paying the agency, all they have to do is look on jobserve to see what theyare paying contractor?? Seems like the client, in this situation, seems a bit dappy.

[Jawz]

Don't mean to be harsh, but it seems like you were a tad naive. I never really debate the rate issue until I have something on the table i.e a job offer. The agency comes back & says they want you, you say cool I want £100 more a day then go from there. As thingy said you never discuss this with the client, it's between you and the agency. Also you are not permitted to go behind the agencies back and contact the client directly. Recruitment agencies had this little 'loophole' sewn up a looooong time ago. Additionally when you finish a contract with a client, usually you cannot approach them directly for up to a year after finishing your contract with them - u can only go through your original agency.

[tim123]

Don't be panicing yet, stay calm and see how it plays out. 20% is on the large side and can shock the odd client but most agents are used to getting the %age found out and can quickly re-negotiate. If this means you get the rate you want and the %age goes down 5-8% for the agency, then I expect everyone to be happy..

Most agencies will walk away from a margin of less than 15%. By the time they have factored the invoices, paid the office overheads and taken on the risk of the client not paying at all (for whatever reason) there's nothing left in the pot for them.

If clients want to recruit through agencies they have to pay them. If they don't like the margins charged then they should have thought of that before engaging them. 20% is not out of line with the norm, the fact that it comes to 'thousands' is just how it is if you take on a 'freelance' without thinking ahead.

Do you work for free?

tim

[lukemg]

Don't be panicing yet, stay calm and see how it plays out. 20% is on the large side and can shock the odd client but most agents are used to getting the %age found out and can quickly re-negotiate. If this means you get the rate you want and the %age goes down 5-8% for the agency, then I expect everyone to be happy.
The agent cares about money, they have someone in who the client wants, that is the key thing, they will try to keep everyone sweet and land the fish, they won't storm off and say sod you all.
The client might get a bit stressed, agent will say it was just the opening rate, to allow negotiating room blah blah.
Don't take any grief from the agent, tell them to stick the job if you get any attitude.
This only happened to me once, they just said 'we are minded to offer you the role' - I'm happy to take it says I. Rate was already sorted and not discussed.

[Sockpuppet]

If you haven't any spare cash to see you through then you should be asking yourself why after 9 years...

Maybe he partys with the duke of westminster a lot.

[ratewhore]

If you've been contracting 9 years then you should have a nice pot of cash somewhere. If this is the case then you really shouldn't be worrying about losing a contract and you should start looking for something else instead.

If you haven't any spare cash to see you through then you should be asking yourself why after 9 years...

[cojak]

having discussed the role i decided it would only be fair to the client if i up'd my rate in line with the amount of work involved.

I don't quite follow this - did you quote a fixed price tender or was it a daily rate?

If you initially quoted a one-off fixed price for the work, it's reasonable if you discover that there's more work needed than your quote.

If it's a daily/hourly rate, it may also be reasonable if the role is more senior/requires more experience than the agency suggested.

Either way, reasonable or not it is risky to do this and you need to accept the fact that you may have talked your way out of a contract.

This is the life of contracting. If you feel you're worth it don't worry about this job.

It's called 'living with the consequences...'.

[Cowboy Bob]

Never, ever, discuss rates with the client directly if you've gone through an agency. It's asking for trouble, and can cause bad feeling on all sides.

Chances are you've lost this gig now. You won't be able to go direct as the client and agency will have a handcuff clause in their contract that stops you from doing so. Chalk it up to experience and move on to find another contract.

[alfabs]

New to these boards so i'm expecting positives and negatives in answer to my problem.

I've recently attended an interview where I was offered the contract there and then... all good except for the fact that having discussed the role i decided it would only be fair to the client if i up'd my rate in line with the amount of work involved. Not my normal practise but given the scale of whats involved i really wanted to give the role 100%+++ , If i had gone with the advertised rate I would have been feeling that for all my efforts ( the efforts would have to be huge given the deadlines involved ) & the being away from home all week, I wouldn't have felt that I was being rewarded sufficiently.

Ok there are many scenario and at this point i'm not 100% sure of where this will lead, as i see it now though the fact that i have exposed the rate on offer originally, they are now aware of the margin to which the agency is working with (20%), this may lead to me loosing out on the gig and the agency loosing alot of future work, at this point we are still awaiting confirmation of how the client wishes to proceed (this is a big company in their field).

If it turns out that I/we (me & agency) are to expensive, it could be said i have done myself out of the work, for now though i get the feeling the client is choking on the thousands of pounds the agency is making, I'm all for everyone making their cut, I've been faithful to agencies in over 9 yrs of contracting but should this collapse and the agency not move if required on their margin, I'll be very tempted to contact the organisation direct.

This post may open a quality can of discussion worms here, right now i'm just hacked off and not quite sure where to point my frustrations... of course it's friday morning, I've been up since 4am and the gig starts on monday ( just the usual last minute stuff )