Reply to: Agent lied to me about the client’s office hours & client actually wants an employee

[dx4100]

If I was on 400 a day I wouldn't be contracting!

Well whatever you are on, you are on half of it...

[dx4100]

Last client I worked with I did 6 hours a day. I left at 2.30pm every day. I did my work and milestones were reached. Kept client in the loop every day even though he trusted me I still did it. Left project into bau with a happy client.

I run my own business. As others said you will dilute your day rate

This man contracts

[cosmic]

Last client I worked with I did 6 hours a day. I left at 2.30pm every day. I did my work and milestones were reached. Kept client in the loop every day even though he trusted me I still did it. Left project into bau with a happy client.

I run my own business. As others said you will dilute your day rate

[BR14]

and which of your cats has the biggest bollocks?

[Amanensia]

If I was on 400 a day I wouldn't be contracting!

[dx4100]

I guess I'm a bad contractor then. Still, it's worked for me for 20 years!

The other way of looking at it is that I'm not working "extra hours". I may be on a day rate but I'm not really selling my time, I'm selling a solution to a problem. Within reason, I will work whatever is required to solve that problem. Sometimes that means I'm working 12 hour days and throwing in some free hours on a weekend. The quid pro quo is that when, as is equally often the case, I'm ahead of the cleint's permie staff and waiting for their requiremernts/inputs/whatever, I'll do short days.

It’s up to you but if you are on 400 a day your basically working for half of that rate in the end...

[Amanensia]

I guess I'm a bad contractor then. Still, it's worked for me for 20 years!

The other way of looking at it is that I'm not working "extra hours". I may be on a day rate but I'm not really selling my time, I'm selling a solution to a problem. Within reason, I will work whatever is required to solve that problem. Sometimes that means I'm working 12 hour days and throwing in some free hours on a weekend. The quid pro quo is that when, as is equally often the case, I'm ahead of the cleint's permie staff and waiting for their requiremernts/inputs/whatever, I'll do short days.

[dx4100]

For me its one of the key skills of what makes you a bad or a good contractor / business man.

If over 28 days you do an additional hour a day, that is an extra three and half days you are working for free.

So you have to ask why am I working this extra time for free?

Is it due to me having a bad day and the code not working ? Fair enough - I take the hit - nice IR35 marker

Is it down to scope creep ? Client time lines ? Loss of client resource ? Third party delays ?

I wouldn't be working extra free hours to cover this stuff off as it just undercuts my agreed rate / earning potential. Obviously you have to factor in doing your client the odd favor to grease the relationship but you have to be really careful you don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

I always run the "what would my plumber do" situation in my head and it usually results in a "erm, its going to cost you" outcome.

[jmo21]

I'm with you on this - I supply services not time - if it takes me 12 hours to get a thing done I bill a day, if it takes 6 hours I bill a day.

Only if it takes 2 hours and there is nothing else to do, so I book a half day.

If I have to work a weekend day - I book a day.

I supply services, and for the most part I stick a "normal" number of hours per day (7.5 usually). I'll work extra should the occasion arrive (outages, bugs, milestones), but I certainly won't do it for long periods just because.

If a client wants to pay a larger than normal rate, and ask for normal+2 hours per day, then I might consider it (and to be honest, I can't see me ever being in that position)

What I won't do is dilute my rate for their benefit.

[Bluebird]

This'll probably be an unpopular post like a few lately, but oh well...!

Frankly my view is that a contractor is a flexible resource, and usually paid significantly better than a permie due to that flexibility, along with enhanced skills and experience. Part of what clients expect, in my experience, is a can-do attitude and a willingness to go the extra mile. If that means sometimes working evenings and weekends when needed to get something over the line, I would expect to do that.

I appreciate that for whatever reason not everyone can do this, and people can have valid reasons for needed to get home regularly at a particular time. If that's the case though then I would be making that abundantly clear before contracts are signed. Managing expectations up front is key.

If having to work until 6pm is a real deal-breaker for you, then quit. As others have said the occasional very short contract won't be a problem on the CV.

I'm with you on this - I supply services not time - if it takes me 12 hours to get a thing done I bill a day, if it takes 6 hours I bill a day.

Only if it takes 2 hours and there is nothing else to do, so I book a half day.

If I have to work a weekend day - I book a day.

[Amanensia]

One thing I always take from these threads is just how many more hours people are doing than me

6pm ? 8 hour days ?

If you are on a day rate you really need to consider how much you are happy to undercut yourself...

Rather depends on your rate

[dx4100]

One thing I always take from these threads is just how many more hours people are doing than me

6pm ? 8 hour days ?

If you are on a day rate you really need to consider how much you are happy to undercut yourself...

[psychocandy]

So is there a reason for 6pm? And what time do you start?

With me, if theres a good reason why I need to be there at a certain then I'll see what I can do. If the odd more hours then fine but its 8 hour max average for me.

I know it can be a bit of an IR35 pointer to have hours in the contract but it does, at least, make things easier somtimes.

Then, I've met a few clients where "everyone does 10 hours a day". Yeh right you mean the permies who are trying to impress and you want the contractors to do it because "you cost enough so want my moneys worth".

No thanks....

[simes]

This'll probably be an unpopular post like a few lately, but oh well...!

Frankly my view is that a contractor is a flexible resource, and usually paid significantly better than a permie due to that flexibility, along with enhanced skills and experience. Part of what clients expect, in my experience, is a can-do attitude and a willingness to go the extra mile. If that means sometimes working evenings and weekends when needed to get something over the line, I would expect to do that.

I appreciate that for whatever reason not everyone can do this, and people can have valid reasons for needed to get home regularly at a particular time. If that's the case though then I would be making that abundantly clear before contracts are signed. Managing expectations up front is key.

If having to work until 6pm is a real deal-breaker for you, then quit. As others have said the occasional very short contract won't be a problem on the CV.

I think the statements 'going the extra mile' and 'being told to stay until 6pm' are mutually exclusive. And certainly from a IR35 tax position.

Offering to get the job done no matter the time in the evening is wholly different to getting the job done by 3pm and still having to stick around until some arbitrary time.

The former makes you stand out and keeps you (in part) away from IR35. The latter might make you stand out at the client, but will Certainly make you stand out in the HMRC's eyes.

[Blert596]

If it's a good enough gig then surely it's at least worth trying to reach a compromise with the client. Explain that as far as you are concerned the position was sold to you as 1730 finish. I'd be asking if I could start earlier, work through lunchtimes etc to make up the extra half hour per day.

i'd take the others being contractors as a plus, as they should be familiar that not everyone is created equal. If their contract says 1800 then that's what they signed up for. each contract to their own.

if there's no compromise then it can still end amicably between you and the client. Just make sure they're informed that you're leaving due to the fact that as far as you're concerned, the Agency they hired to recruit you, deliberately misled you.

If you were told the hours were until 1730 that's what you signed up for - no more no less.