Reply to: Potential gig with on-call element

[BHicks]

Companies do outsource support work. As long as the contract and working practices are there, can't see it's an IR35 issue.

Good to know.

As it happens, the issue has self-resolved.

I had a message from the agency asking me to give them a call. When I got in touch it turns out the client has requested not to proceed with the placement as apparently they took issue with the fact that B&C were involved and daring to request clarifications/amendments to confirm the IR35 status. Particularly as the client was insistent it be a 12 month contract.

Not impressed with the client or the agent's handling of the situation tbh but that's business for you.

[perplexed]

On-call work would not definitely make the contract inside but it's probably a danger point.

One option would be to split it into two contracts, one for the regular work and a second for the on-call weekend work. You could potentially operate the weekend one inside IR35, the other outside.

Companies do outsource support work. As long as the contract and working practices are there, can't see it's an IR35 issue.

[WordIsBond]

On-call work would not definitely make the contract inside but it's probably a danger point.

One option would be to split it into two contracts, one for the regular work and a second for the on-call weekend work. You could potentially operate the weekend one inside IR35, the other outside.

[psychocandy]

Don't know my friend - I was only suggesting it needs some consideration. I would certainly be running it by an IR35 specialist first personally.

Would I do it for an outside IR35 contract? I don't think I'd be so keen to be honest, especially if it was TOIL rather than written into the contract.

[psychocandy]

Its not really short sighted - Its just the parameters I set for myself. I don't want to do on call and it does have a wiff of IR35.

If you don't want to do it fair enough of course.

And yes I will agree about IR35. BUT as I said, I'm Inside at the mo anyway.

[dx4100]

How is it different than a lawyer's retention? The on-call element isn't that much of an IR35 factor. What is more important is that is that it's usually tied to a support role and IMHO most of these are inside IR35 to begin with.

IR35 aside, the terms of the on-call sound generous. Just don't accept TOIL and what not and demand payment for it all. Even if remuneration is not strictly in the contract I would simply refuse doing it if they renege on what was discussed.

Don't know my friend - I was only suggesting it needs some consideration. I would certainly be running it by an IR35 specialist first personally.

[dx4100]

A bit short-sighted to be honest. Got to decide each situation on its merits if you ask me.

If you want to be an awkward git who refuses to fit in, give a little, refuses to work the odd weekend if asked or so the a small favour then be prepared to have to find a new contract. Seen it many times- theres always one contractor who sticks to the exact word of the contract, won't budge an inch - out the door.

I'm not saying bend over. There are many clients who will take the p@ss. I'm just saying judge it on the situation.

In my case, I'm inside IR35 anyway. My client is pretty good. They were in a bit of pickle with not enough to people do to on call. OK, rate for the on call was crap but its easy. LAst year I got to bill for probably 20 days of my holidays so bit of a bonus.

I could have said no of course but, IN THIS CASE, the positives gained for myself and the good feeling I achieved, outweighed the negatives for me.

Then again, in the past, a client asked me to do on call. Rate was same as permies. hmmm. There was no remote access. If I got called I'd have to drive an hour to the office, then ONLY get paid for time in the office. Potentially, 100 mile drive, 2.5 hours for 30 mins pay. Umm no I don't think so.

Its not really short sighted - Its just the parameters I set for myself. I don't want to do on call and it does have a wiff of IR35.

[sal]

Thanks all for your comments.

The comments re TOIL are timely since there's another potential gig on the horizon which is better ratewise but they're muttering about occasional weekend work with TOIL.

Makes me wonder how that would work since that suggests falsified timesheets which isn't a smart thing to get into.

If there is an arrangement and ClientCo signs the "falsified" timesheets and pays the money to the Agency, where do you see the problem?

[BHicks]

Thanks all for your comments.

The comments re TOIL are timely since there's another potential gig on the horizon which is better ratewise but they're muttering about occasional weekend work with TOIL.

Makes me wonder how that would work since that suggests falsified timesheets which isn't a smart thing to get into.

[7specialgems]

On-call makes me think "part and parcel" and "prescribed working hours".

Support gigs for live services in general aren't contingent IMO.

If you're doing a managed services contract with them and they're going to sub it out to YourCo lock stock and barrel, fair enough, otherwise I wouldn't want to touch it IMO.

[sal]

Guaranteed payment for generic unspecified work regardless even if said work is supplied or not...

No idea - but it sniffs of IR35 issues to me...

It’s not something I would entertain regardless of IR35 anyway Sounds like the exact reason I became a contractor all those years ago to avoid rubbish like this! . Working weekends ? No thanks.. Leave that to the perms!

How is it different than a lawyer's retention? The on-call element isn't that much of an IR35 factor. What is more important is that is that it's usually tied to a support role and IMHO most of these are inside IR35 to begin with.

IR35 aside, the terms of the on-call sound generous. Just don't accept TOIL and what not and demand payment for it all. Even if remuneration is not strictly in the contract I would simply refuse doing it if they renege on what was discussed.

[psychocandy]

Guaranteed payment for generic unspecified work regardless even if said work is supplied or not...

No idea - but it sniffs of IR35 issues to me...

It’s not something I would entertain regardless of IR35 anyway Sounds like the exact reason I became a contractor all those years ago to avoid rubbish like this! . Working weekends ? No thanks.. Leave that to the perms!

A bit short-sighted to be honest. Got to decide each situation on its merits if you ask me.

If you want to be an awkward git who refuses to fit in, give a little, refuses to work the odd weekend if asked or so the a small favour then be prepared to have to find a new contract. Seen it many times- theres always one contractor who sticks to the exact word of the contract, won't budge an inch - out the door.

I'm not saying bend over. There are many clients who will take the p@ss. I'm just saying judge it on the situation.

In my case, I'm inside IR35 anyway. My client is pretty good. They were in a bit of pickle with not enough to people do to on call. OK, rate for the on call was crap but its easy. LAst year I got to bill for probably 20 days of my holidays so bit of a bonus.

I could have said no of course but, IN THIS CASE, the positives gained for myself and the good feeling I achieved, outweighed the negatives for me.

Then again, in the past, a client asked me to do on call. Rate was same as permies. hmmm. There was no remote access. If I got called I'd have to drive an hour to the office, then ONLY get paid for time in the office. Potentially, 100 mile drive, 2.5 hours for 30 mins pay. Umm no I don't think so.

[dx4100]

Guaranteed payment for generic unspecified work regardless even if said work is supplied or not...

No idea - but it sniffs of IR35 issues to me...

It’s not something I would entertain regardless of IR35 anyway Sounds like the exact reason I became a contractor all those years ago to avoid rubbish like this! . Working weekends ? No thanks.. Leave that to the perms!

[northernladuk]

Then again, a mate of mine worked somewhere accrued 60 or similar days TOIL. Suddenly, manager changed, project binned. At this point, there was no way they were going to pay an extra 60 days on top on his last invoice.

I think that says more about the quality of your friends than it does the situation.

[psychocandy]

I've been offered a gig which has apparently has an on-call/weekend element.

Allegedly this would be one week a month (or thereabouts). At the start of the process, the agent dropped an email which mentioned the remuneration for on-call which essentially boiled down to a fixed amount for just being on call, plus an hourly amount for any actual work done on call.

Weekends would apparently be worth double the standard day rate.

The proposed contract from the agency didn't mention anything about any of the on call or weekend aspects and as it's being reviewed by B&C, I flagged that with them for following up with the agency.

I've see a few comments on here suggesting that on-call/weekend working isn't necessarily an IR35 issue, if handled correctly. In that instance, what should I be mindful of?

Hmm. Not in the contract?

I'm my experience whereas clients suck up the fact that the contractor daily rate is probably 3 times that of a permie they aint keen on paying 3x for on call. I suppose they think they're paying enough already.

Always wary of the TOIL for on call thing. Got to trust the client. I do it where I am now. Basically, one day TOIL for every week on call. On call is very easy - hardly ever get called so I dont mind. One day rate is not great but, they were in a hole, so it was points for me.
Works for me. Week off bill for it now worries.

Then again, a mate of mine worked somewhere accrued 60 or similar days TOIL. Suddenly, manager changed, project binned. At this point, there was no way they were going to pay an extra 60 days on top on his last invoice.