Reply to: Been offered a perm role - but what's this 20% in their calculations?

[NotAllThere]

You complain about 'precision' earlier, yet then say "who cares where they got the formula from?"

lol

Right... well that's very logical. Anyway - thread off topic now, you've got your answer. Closed.

[gypsymoth]

big consultancy.
arrogant.
krap at maths.

it's a Powerpoint Monkey !!

worth 25K at least.

Interesting how a couple of people managed to understand the original post and respond in a helpful, adult way.... but a couple of people couldn't manage that and tried - unsuccessfully - to have a pop and appear smart. Their failures get pointed out, then a few sycophants jump to their defence. Kind of tragic, but everyone needs a hobby.

Anyway, thank you to those that responded

[BR14]

Lovely that you've gone into bat for him, but he's not going to kiss you mate.

big consultancy.
arrogant.
krap at maths.

it's a Powerpoint Monkey !!

worth 25K at least.

[gypsymoth]

To be honest, NotAllThere probably expected you to be of a higher caliber if you can't simply write a formula. 20% is *0.8 for your formula.

The HR department use a standard model for a large company but with the usual variance, depending on the role, grading and moon phase.

Given your posts I'd take the permanent role, as I can't see elsewhere offering you this. However I expect such tripe from a big4 consultant.

Lovely that you've gone into bat for him, but he's not going to kiss you mate.

[rogerfederer]

You complain about 'precision' earlier, yet then say "who cares where they got the formula from?"

lol

To be honest, NotAllThere probably expected you to be of a higher caliber if you can't simply write a formula. 20% is *0.8 for your formula.

The HR department use a standard model for a large company but with the usual variance, depending on the role, grading and moon phase.

Given your posts I'd take the permanent role, as I can't see elsewhere offering you this. However I expect such tripe from a big4 consultant.

[gypsymoth]

Sure. But at some point, someone will have decided that, for the op's organisation, 20% is the deduction. Others might choose 22%. Or 50%. There's no industry standard. That's from my experience in working in large companies for several decades...

The OP's statement "Yet no one can explain that 20% deduction" is a bit odd. Yeah. No-one can, because HR have made it up. Whether they've made up by rolling dice, or in depth analysis of the industry is kind of moot. You'll be offered what you're offered - you've been given some kind of heads up what the offer will be, and it seems reasonable - all else is negotiation. Who cares where they got their formula from?

You complain about 'precision' earlier, yet then say "who cares where they got the formula from?"

lol

[NotAllThere]

Sure. But at some point, someone will have decided that, for the op's organisation, 20% is the deduction. Others might choose 22%. Or 50%. There's no industry standard. That's from my experience in working in large companies for several decades...

The OP's statement "Yet no one can explain that 20% deduction" is a bit odd. Yeah. No-one can, because HR have made it up. Whether they've made up by rolling dice, or in depth analysis of the industry is kind of moot. You'll be offered what you're offered - you've been given some kind of heads up what the offer will be, and it seems reasonable - all else is negotiation. Who cares where they got their formula from?

[edison]

Do I? I thought ou industry involved precision and accuracy. If you meant -20% you should write it. Maybe I was supposed to guess that the 220 was in fact 37.

So 80% of 220 x day rate. Seems fair. First of all, HR can pull any figure they like out of anywhere - and frequently do. If the total cost of employment were 25% above the salary, that would equate to rate - 20%.

Seems very fair.

That's not my experience working in several large organisations. HR will usually have someone called a Reward Manager who is responsible for evaluating salaries and benefits for all staff. When I've had to create a new perm role, they benchmark the job spec against external statistical data to come up with a recommendation. Salary budgets and new headcount are very tightly controlled and managed in most places. Especially in the current climate, organisations are very reluctant to create new posts, hence the rigorous benchmarking and management approval process.

[NotAllThere]

Come on man! You know it’s a 20% reduction

Do I? I thought ou industry involved precision and accuracy. If you meant -20% you should write it. Maybe I was supposed to guess that the 220 was in fact 37.

So 80% of 220 x day rate. Seems fair. First of all, HR can pull any figure they like out of anywhere - and frequently do. If the total cost of employment were 25% above the salary, that would equate to rate - 20%.

Seems very fair.

[BrilloPad]

Personally I got day rate *220 * 0.9. And 10% pension. And 10% guaranteed bonus. And they pay the NI on the bonus too.

25 days holiday.

[gypsymoth]

Just curious what's your line of work? I assume IT consultancy or management in London?

If I was you at that rate -20% I would take it having a salary over 100k is hard to come by with all the perks that come with it unless you are a director which usually is over 100k.

Thanks

work for one of the big consultancy firms (for my sins) just outside London. Its a unique set up.

[cosmic]

Thank you - useful reply. Day rate is £675 - how does that change the equation in your mind? Id be getting 26 days holiday, healthcare, pension etc

Just curious what's your line of work? I assume IT consultancy or management in London?

If I was you at that rate -20% I would take it having a salary over 100k is hard to come by with all the perks that come with it unless you are a director which usually is over 100k.

Thanks

[gypsymoth]

Agree this will make zero difference.

But I do wonder, surely if you have to go perm somewhere then it's better the devil you know. I've been successful enough to get repeat business at 2 of my preferred clients. If contracting is killed and I had to go perm somewhere then of course I'd rather one of them......yes make sure there are clear differences between how/what you were doing contract vs perm

Thanks

The gap between engagements has been mentioned by a couple of colleagues accountants, and in principle, I can see the logic.

Equally, if you're engaged as a contractor to do X role, the title of the new role (and the responsibilities) are pretty different, so I'd struggle to see how the HMRC could prove a case anyway.

[gypsymoth]

Based on that day rate, I would be looking for a salary of around £90-95k plus benefits. If they are offering you 220*675 = 148,500, minus 20% = 118,800, I would seriously consider the perm offer just in monetary terms (assuming you are getting the usual benefits like bonus, car allowance etc.)

If the HR person has any idea what they are doing, they will benchmark the new permanent role against data from specialist Reward Consultancies. I've done this exercise myself a lot this year with HR for a whole IT department. At that point, I would expect the Head of HR to say that £118k is too high a salary!

Thats very very helpful. Thank you!

[PTP]

Will make zero difference, just curious to why you would believe it would ?

Chap down the pub tell you this?

Agree this will make zero difference.

But I do wonder, surely if you have to go perm somewhere then it's better the devil you know. I've been successful enough to get repeat business at 2 of my preferred clients. If contracting is killed and I had to go perm somewhere then of course I'd rather one of them......yes make sure there are clear differences between how/what you were doing contract vs perm