IT Jobswatch day rate table - Any good?

[northernladuk]

Appreciate that your experiences and mine may vary considerably here but I tend to find that the agent (when dealing with almost any 'contract' posted on Jobserve etc - which is unfortunately how newer contractors like myself tend to find work), can only very rarely provide this and tend to instead provide a generic job specification or similar. If I'm lucky, it's not a clear permie job spec.

I tend to have to get through to the hiring manager for interview, so I can find out what they really want, and then basically use that to write the SoW for the agent during the contract negotiation phase.

Nope, we aren't a million miles apart in that and it is the right approach.

[man]

Firstly you should not be asking for a job specification. That's what permies do and is bad for IR35. You should be asking for a schedule of work which covers the exact piece of work you are required to do. A job specification indicates you are taking up a role with no detail about what you'll be doing.

Appreciate that your experiences and mine may vary considerably here but I tend to find that the agent (when dealing with almost any 'contract' posted on Jobserve etc - which is unfortunately how newer contractors like myself tend to find work), can only very rarely provide this and tend to instead provide a generic job specification or similar. If I'm lucky, it's not a clear permie job spec.

I tend to have to get through to the hiring manager for interview, so I can find out what they really want, and then basically use that to write the SoW for the agent during the contract negotiation phase.

[siphr]

Thanks a lot. That is very helpful to know.

[northernladuk]

So for somebody who is new, how do I find out what I should be quoting, I am trying to get going so I have a pool of clients, so don't want to charge myself out of business. Conversely, a lot of times I speak to agents and they just say this is the highest a client would go, etc. So I ask them whether they are on fixed commission or not and a lot of them say that they are, but obviously there is no way to find out.

My general protocol is to ask for a job specification, and then quote based on that. However, quoting to cover your cost and and what the median rate is are two different things.

Any direction regarding this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Firstly you should not be asking for a job specification. That's what permies do and is bad for IR35. You should be asking for a schedule of work which covers the exact piece of work you are required to do. A job specification indicates you are taking up a role with no detail about what you'll be doing. You could very easily fall in to Direction and Control where the client just allocates you any piece of work as and when it suits them which is a very bad flag for IR35 and not how contractors work.

You are correct to ask the agents if they are on fixed commission and as much as you can't trust a word they say I'd be OK if they confirmed this in writing. It's one thing trying to pull the wool over your eyes on the phone, it's another to put it in writing. If you are confident in dealing with the agents there is less chance of them spotting you are a newbie and pulling your pants down. Ask daft questions or give the appearance you don't know what you are doing they will have a field day with you.

Regarding rates, you'll just have to do your research about what gigs are out there in the same area of the country and what they are going for and when you've got a good approximation add 20% and go in with that with the expectation you'll be negotiated down. Or on the other hand just think what it's worth for you and stick to it. Personally I don't mind a bit of rate flexibility. I've only ever dealt with agents and generally get what they offered and touch wood not been screwed over yet but the rates can vary with up to £150 between the highest and lowest. Gigs are only short term so happy to accept a lower rate for awhile if it gets me off the bench.

You'll just have to do some research and then make a judgement call if the client isn't willing to show his hand with a figure.

[siphr]

Not at all. It's made up from figures scraped from jobsites. As most of us know what the agent puts on the advert is often nothing like the figure agreed if you get the gig.

Been a long time since I've been on there so forget if you can narrow down to location but if you can't be aware the London prices could skew it further.

Use it as very basic guidance only.

Thanks for the response. That is quite surprising.

So for somebody who is new, how do I find out what I should be quoting, I am trying to get going so I have a pool of clients, so don't want to charge myself out of business. Conversely, a lot of times I speak to agents and they just say this is the highest a client would go, etc. So I ask them whether they are on fixed commission or not and a lot of them say that they are, but obviously there is no way to find out.

My general protocol is to ask for a job specification, and then quote based on that. However, quoting to cover your cost and and what the median rate is are two different things.

Any direction regarding this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[northernladuk]

Not at all. It's made up from figures scraped from jobsites. As most of us know what the agent puts on the advert is often nothing like the figure agreed if you get the gig.

Been a long time since I've been on there so forget if you can narrow down to location but if you can't be aware the London prices could skew it further.

Use it as very basic guidance only.

[siphr]

Do you guys find that the IT Jobswatch day rate table is an accurate representation of the market in your area? And do you normally accept day rates below what is quoted there? Thanks.