Reply to: Potential client wants me to work longer hours than I want

[hairymouse]

Here's an update in case anyone is interested:

Told the agent about the long hours expectation and he was actually pretty understanding. He offered to put me in touch with another contractor on site so that I could ask about the real life environment but I declined just because of the general feel I got from the "boss". Agent was still understanding and says he'll even send through any feedback he gets from the interview. It would be a shame if they didn't even like me either.

Thanks for the advice.

[psychocandy]

No from me - wont end well

[washed up contractor]

I can never understand this focus from some people on hours rather than results.

I would rather have a contractor who does tons of effective work in a 6 hour day than someone who does little in 12 hours.

Can anyone explain this? I think I saw on Guardian article about the modern curse of looking busy?

In Victorian times the rich tended to use their wealth to buy leisure time. That happens far less now.

It is the permie manager mindset and not something most experienced contractors would project. Same as must have bum on seat in the office else I cannot see what they are producing.

[GreenMirror]

I can never understand this focus from some people on hours rather than results.

I would rather have a contractor who does tons of effective work in a 6 hour day than someone who does little in 12 hours.

Can anyone explain this? I think I saw on Guardian article about the modern curse of looking busy?

In Victorian times the rich tended to use their wealth to buy leisure time. That happens far less now.

[washed up contractor]

I just had an initial meeting with a client where without me asking, he started going on about expecting contractors to work more than 9 to 5. He supposedly works 7:30 to 5 and seemed to be suggesting that I should do something similar.

I'm not happy about this level of control, and the contract is not closely tied to a particular project as well, more of a BAU type of thing. And he seems like a person I don't want to spend much time with anyway.

In a few minutes, the agent will be calling for feedback and I'd like some pointers on what to say. I might consider doing the contract if I could raise my daily rate by £25 or so to compensate for the longer hours, but I can't figure out how to word that without sounding like a prima Donna.

Otherwise, maybe I should leave it and tell the agent that the working conditions seem overly controlling and there is too much direction.

I've got a war chest and can keep looking if needed.

My only contract I ever got within 8 miles of home, on the 2nd day I was met by the Programme Test Manager who said 'Oh, a local contractor. That means you can work extra long hours.' 'If you pay me for extra long hours, I might be able to accommodate that but otherwise, I manage my time and workload excellently.'

He never mentioned it again.

Im presuming this was during the interview so you know what the expectation is. End of the day, it comes down to whether you have overall good or bad vibes about the work ethos, accept that and whether you could find another role in the market.

[SueEllen]

Increase your quote by 20% for an extended professional working day.

You are presuming the OP wants to work those hours as they have no life.

[Old Greg]

I just had an initial meeting with a client where without me asking, he started going on about expecting contractors to work more than 9 to 5. He supposedly works 7:30 to 5 and seemed to be suggesting that I should do something similar.

I'm not happy about this level of control, and the contract is not closely tied to a particular project as well, more of a BAU type of thing. And he seems like a person I don't want to spend much time with anyway.

In a few minutes, the agent will be calling for feedback and I'd like some pointers on what to say. I might consider doing the contract if I could raise my daily rate by £25 or so to compensate for the longer hours, but I can't figure out how to word that without sounding like a prima Donna.

Otherwise, maybe I should leave it and tell the agent that the working conditions seem overly controlling and there is too much direction.

I've got a war chest and can keep looking if needed.

Increase your quote by 20% for an extended professional working day.

[Lance]

for me the biggest problem is the attitude.

I have no issue working from 0730 to 2000 if there is work that requires it and it adds value. But that is also 1.5 days not one day.
It's about flexibility and flexibility is a 2-way street. If the client is inflexible I just leave (some would just be equally inflexible).

If, at an interview, I was asked if I'd do 0730 to 1700 I'd say 'yes when required, not when it isn't. And if it's 1600 and there's no more value to be gained working another hour I'd call it a day there and then. If that's not going to work for you then we can end this here'.

[sal]

I would accept the role, show off my expert skills but work only for 8 hours. Because

1. Contract states only 8 hours (what was conveyed to you was verbal, doesn't stick)
2. If the client wants to replace you, they will have to go through the entire hiring process which is tiring and takes longer with many bigger clients.
3. Even if the client is happy to go through (2.), I get paid until they find a replacement and I wouldn't show this in my CV.

There are several issues with that approach.

1. This might be technically correct, but you are heading for confrontation with the end client from day 1, he can just refuse to sign the timesheets on the grounds that he is not satisfied with the work and there is little you can do about it.

2. You assume the hiring manager cares about the lengthy process, rather than having someone agreeable on board.

3. See 1.) about payment and the chances are the contract won't last more than several weeks - not exactly something you want on your CV. God forbid prospective client have connections with ClientCo and asks around.


If the long hours are the only deal breaker, personally I would just explain to the agent that I have personal life commitments that don't allow such long hours (you can quote picking/dropping a kid at the nursery, whether you got kids is non of his business) and let him convey to ClientCo that i'm otherwise happy with the role as long as they don't expect these unreasonable hours.

[pauldee]

I expect the agent knows full well what this client is like and dreads having to fill their roles. I don't think they'd hold it against you.

[jmo21]

It's a no from me!

The rate would need to be exceptional, and even then I probably still wouldn't want to take the contract.

[BigDataPro]

I would accept the role, show off my expert skills but work only for 8 hours. Because

1. Contract states only 8 hours (what was conveyed to you was verbal, doesn't stick)
2. If the client wants to replace you, they will have to go through the entire hiring process which is tiring and takes longer with many bigger clients.
3. Even if the client is happy to go through (2.), I get paid until they find a replacement and I wouldn't show this in my CV.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for the replies, you guys are right. I'm not desperate enough yet and I'm sure something better will come along.

Any suggested wording to the agent or should I just assume he's not ever going to send me out again? I feel a little bit bad because everything was pretty much as the agent described, he just left out the overly controlling bit.

The agent will contract you again if they have another role that would suit you as they want to make money.

In regards to this particular client - just don't be surprised if you are approached by a different agent in the future for the same client. If so just politely say "Thanks but no thanks" giving a polite reason and only go into slightly more but polite detail if they push.

[hairymouse]

"The client wants me there 9 1/2 hours every day. I don't work that way. It just wouldn't be a good fit and neither of us would be happy."

And quietly, not in writing, "And a word in your ear, he seemed a bit of a control freak. Maybe I got it wrong, and maybe other guys will be willing to take it on, but I think you'll find there will be some others who would walk away, too. But the big thing is the hours."

Agent shouldn't have a problem with you not wanting to work long hours, and he'd rather you walk away now than a month from now.

Great suggestion. Thanks.

[WordIsBond]

"The client wants me there 9 1/2 hours every day. I don't work that way. It just wouldn't be a good fit and neither of us would be happy."

And quietly, not in writing, "And a word in your ear, he seemed a bit of a control freak. Maybe I got it wrong, and maybe other guys will be willing to take it on, but I think you'll find there will be some others who would walk away, too. But the big thing is the hours."

Agent shouldn't have a problem with you not wanting to work long hours, and he'd rather you walk away now than a month from now.