Reply to: New Contractor Portal - Sourcing new contracts - What do you want?

[errorista]

Too experienced = Knows the market rate.

Experienced = No big margin available as with noobs with an MCSE.

No need for references if the contractor has 15+ years in the industry with a list of high profile clients and multiple renewals to show. (Find me an agent who understands this simple concept)

Agent = Someone who does not understand the client requirement and therefore can only guess what person will fill that requirement. They do however understand their own margins and place people accordingly (taking a large margin which is not value adding for the client). What does the client know anyway?

I have years of experience and can safely say that agents have made contracting a very unreliable occupation for contractors and are a very unfulfilling resource for clients.

You may notice that more and more roles are being advertised with 'no agencies please' added to the specification. There is a reason for this. Agencies are failing to deliver and are becoming disliked by employers. Ive spoken to CEO's who hate agencies at least as much as contractors do.

There is a wind of change blowing through the market. Many large outfits are creating their own websites and harvesting CV's for themselves. Hell, if agencies can do it then so can they. Why pay a HR dept and then outsource HR?

2c

PS DP Connect = iProfile. Therefore if you use Jobjock filtering then you probably never heard of them.

[malvolio]

I have been through a bad stage of no call backs, obsolete/commodity skills, worry about money and tightening of belts to match income but I don't see that as being anyone else's fault but mine. In addition, I didn't expect anyone else to get me out of the hole !
Keep up with the market and save for a rainy day while the cash is coming in. You have to have something you can sell and the market is harsh these days if you aren't a 99% match, then someone else will be and they will get through.

If you mean me, you're wrong. My skills are non-technical, up to date, of high quality and in demand right now for almost anything that isn't development work. It's not lack of work that's the problem, and I'm not really looking very hard since I've got a four-week holiday coming up early next year. I'm quite relaxed about not working and can pay the motgage for another five months if I have to.

That does not exonerate the agencies in general for being good body-shifters but bloody awful salesmen. It's not lack of work for me that's the issue, it's the lack of recognition that clients are not seeing potentially good candidates for poor reasons.

Put it this way - in my last gig I tried to get someone on to my team that I knew could do the job and had the specific expertise I needed. Can't do it directly, obviously, he had to apply for the post. I got fourteen CVs within a week, most unsuitable, none belonging to my (potential) candidate. He doesn't know why either.

I've seen that happen before, several times. If the system can't match an ideal candidate with a role partly created for him, then it's the system that's broke, not the candidates.

[ratewhore]

I can beat that. Currently working on a govt programme. A coloured guy was interviewed, offered the gig, refused to undertake clearance checks, didn't turn up on start date, didn't turn up on next due start date, gig offered to someone else.

Now suing for racial and sexual discrimination. Go figure...

[wendigo100]

A selection of recent answers have been ... "You are too experienced" ...

Slight diversion. I interviewed a bloke recently and, for some reason that had nothing to do with me, his agent told him he was turned down because he was "too experienced".

He kicked off an ageism complaint.

[lukemg]

Either I am lucky, or I have low expectations, but my experience of agents has been mostly positive. I have had a few try to steamroller me but I don't take it personally, it's business.
You have to get inside their heads to play the game better.
I reply to an advert that is a good match for me (ok, I might aim a step up the ladder the odd time). When/if the agent gets in touch, my first job is to be on his list of people to put forward to the client.
So, the checklist kicks in, I am friendly, keen on the job, positive about the client, happy to provide a few examples of how I fit the profile. The agent gets a good feeling about me and puts me forward - or not. They are putting a list together that says to the client 'I can find you just the right people at the right price and availability' - My job is to get on that list, end of story.
It's easy to pick the fishers out and side-step them, again, I don't take it to heart.
If I get an interview it is all about me, get in and do the deal. If I miss out, yes I am disappointed (because I like to win) but I let it go and look for the next one.
I have been through a bad stage of no call backs, obsolete/commodity skills, worry about money and tightening of belts to match income but I don't see that as being anyone else's fault but mine. In addition, I didn't expect anyone else to get me out of the hole !
Keep up with the market and save for a rainy day while the cash is coming in. You have to have something you can sell and the market is harsh these days if you aren't a 99% match, then someone else will be and they will get through.

[malvolio]

I have asked, actually. A selection of recent answers have been "You're not cleared" (I am, actually), "They will only take people with (insert industry here) experience", "You are too experienced" (and that's a bad thing?) and "You won't take the rate on offer". As for asking many of the agencies, that's not even an option. If they deign to post a contact number you will never, ever get to talk to them. There was a call out recently for senior consultants in my arena with around 10 years, wide-ranging experience. That's me, so CV goes in to a Jobserve mailbox (again, no contact name or number quoted), and after a week or so not even a hint of a reply - so how the f*** do I find out why?

I have a decent relationship with several agents, to be honest, and I'm really not struggling for work right now anyway. I'm merely pointing out the disconnect between Ideal World and Real World. Many of the problems are at our end, but not all of them, by a very long way.

[DodgyAgent]

Come on DA, you know perfectly well there are the effective agents and the cockney barrow-boy types.

The present agent I am using is very effective and as an added measure takes me out for beer and curry but that relationship building is far from the norm. I have him looking for something new for me now and he is on the phone to his contacts today.

As for whatever is necessary, I think whatever is easiest is more like it. The database trawl emails proves this as I continue to receive loads of them which bear no resemblance to my skills and experience and to top it all have the statement asking me to pass it on to my contacts if it is not suitable for me. Cheeky feckers!!

There you are then!

[DodgyAgent]

I think DA is bringing up an important point here though ... as contractors we seem to become so preoccuiped with dealing with the various "tricks" employed by agents that our interactions with them become highly prescribed and one-dimensional.

From what I can understand, DA is suggesting that Mal simply asks the agent why he couldn't be put forward for banking roles - thinking about it there's no reason why Mal couldn't have done so. I've had similar problems in the past but at no point have I thought to ask the agent "Why?". Sure, the agent may well come out with a load of bull in the form of yet another trick, but they may also come out with insightful feedback that may help Mal tailor his approach/CV/whatever.

But then what would I know - I've never managed to score an agency contract in my life despite having successful relationships with several direct clients...

Thank you chicane. I have never understood why more of you contractors do not play agencies at their own game. If they have a plumb job, why not get try and get your reference to call them? Or make them think that if they get your CV in front of the client then you may give them some leads. We are greedy bastards and none too bright, this type of tactic will, believe me, work.

[ratewhore]

Come on DA, you know perfectly well there are the effective agents and the cockney barrow-boy types.

The present agent I am using is very effective and as an added measure takes me out for beer and curry but that relationship building is far from the norm. I have him looking for something new for me now and he is on the phone to his contacts today.

As for whatever is necessary, I think whatever is easiest is more like it. The database trawl emails proves this as I continue to receive loads of them which bear no resemblance to my skills and experience and to top it all have the statement asking me to pass it on to my contacts if it is not suitable for me. Cheeky feckers!!

[chicane]

I think DA is bringing up an important point here though ... as contractors we seem to become so preoccuiped with dealing with the various "tricks" employed by agents that our interactions with them become highly prescribed and one-dimensional.

From what I can understand, DA is suggesting that Mal simply asks the agent why he couldn't be put forward for banking roles - thinking about it there's no reason why Mal couldn't have done so. I've had similar problems in the past but at no point have I thought to ask the agent "Why?". Sure, the agent may well come out with a load of bull in the form of yet another trick, but they may also come out with insightful feedback that may help Mal tailor his approach/CV/whatever.

But then what would I know - I've never managed to score an agency contract in my life despite having successful relationships with several direct clients...

[DodgyAgent]

Precisely - I know my skills a lot better than an agent who has merely read my CV (which is not that bad actuallly) and am more than capable of selling them to the client, whree I can dicuss the business requirement properly. But it's like the Court of St James - the people who control the market are the ones who control the access to it, and it ain't the clients.

If you cant communicate with an agent in a way that gets him to do what you want then what hope have you of being effective in front of a client. You are not thinking, you are moaning.

[DodgyAgent]

I think he is saying that, if you put him in front of a client then he will sell himself. It's the pimps who tick the checkboxes that he has an issue with.

.

They/you all say that. The pimps do whatever is necessary to get someone in the job and to optimise their profit. We are simple things really which should make it easy for you guys to deal with us. However you rarely bother to think along positive lines choosing instead to whine and moan and blame everyone else.

[malvolio]

I think he is saying that, if you put him in front of a client then he will sell himself. It's the pimps who tick the checkboxes that he has an issue with.

Apologies Mal if I got that wrong. That's my understanding.

Precisely - I know my skills a lot better than an agent who has merely read my CV (which is not that bad actuallly) and am more than capable of selling them to the client, whree I can dicuss the business requirement properly. But it's like the Court of St James - the people who control the market are the ones who control the access to it, and it ain't the clients.

[ratewhore]

I think he is saying that, if you put him in front of a client then he will sell himself. It's the pimps who tick the checkboxes that he has an issue with.

Apologies Mal if I got that wrong. That's my understanding.

[DodgyAgent]

You are saying two things here, firstly:

If the agent is losing out by not picking you ahead of others then something is wrong with the relationship between you and the client

This, obviously makes no sense. Secondly:

If the client is losing out by not picking you ahead of others then something is wrong with the relationship between you and the client

Difficult if a pimp cannot sort the wheat from the chaff in the first place.

I am trying to get malvolio to accept the responsibility for not being able to find a job on himself rather than blaming others. So Malvolio's problem is that he is not getting in front of the client. The problem may lie in his CV, his relationship with the agent or a host of other reasons.I obviously have not managed to convey this clearly.

If Malvolio is failing to get banking jobs because he has no banking exp, yet feels that it should make no difference, he would be wise in trying to find out why this barrier exists rather than assume that it is down to ignorance of the client.