Reply to: Agent acting dodgy, how would you respond?

[fatboyslim]

In every client that I've had.

I never bill by the half day - if I work, I bill for the day; if I don't work, I don't bill for the day. It's a fairly simple rule to follow.

In my last permie job, we closed early on Christmas Eve / last working day before Christmas, and fully expected the contractors to invoice for the full day.

I have billed half day if it is me who needs the rest of the day for my own need. If it is a client thing like chrismas eve, they don't mind me billing full day.

[Boney M]

I've done this several times. They say clients shouldn't discuss with the company what they are paying but most will if your rapport is good and they liked me.

I was on £450 per day and i found out i was getting charged out at £600 pd - it was a niche 'ish' IT contract. To me the recruitment companies are pimps simple as that.

When contract renewal came out, the recruitment guy said do you want to renew (with glee)? - i said well I've been looking about and RC people are ringing up about contracts back home which is cheaper for me thus I'll be on more money due to living at home. I said i wanted another £50 a day and they ummed/ahhed and came back with £25 i said sorry its borderline now, eventually i had to fill in some bulltulip form about my skills (playing their game) and they came back and agreed to pay £50 more a day so i was on £50 a more a day for 6 month, contract was extended 3 times after the second i never asked for more money.

As above it'll generally come out of their cut, this recruitment guy (who the company wasn't over keen on) went back the company and asked if they were willing to pay £50 more a day!!! - i specifically told him not do this beforehand as it wont look good and he will come across negatively. I don't have to tell you what happened and they didn't use that recruitment company again.

I feel the above is basic negotiating skills, they want you on their books and even if they decline/call your bluff give some BS excuse about liking the job etc and stay.

Cheers

Have to disagree here, when i have negotiated more on a renewal and this is with several agencies because i have been privy to their mark up in almost all scenarios they go to the client and ask for it rather than allow from their cut and in a few situations this did cause a few issues with client co.

[CoolCat]

I've done this several times. They say clients shouldn't discuss with the company what they are paying but most will if your rapport is good and they liked me.

I was on £450 per day and i found out i was getting charged out at £600 pd - it was a niche 'ish' IT contract. To me the recruitment companies are pimps simple as that.

When contract renewal came out, the recruitment guy said do you want to renew (with glee)? - i said well I've been looking about and RC people are ringing up about contracts back home which is cheaper for me thus I'll be on more money due to living at home. I said i wanted another £50 a day and they ummed/ahhed and came back with £25 i said sorry its borderline now, eventually i had to fill in some bulltulip form about my skills (playing their game) and they came back and agreed to pay £50 more a day so i was on £50 a more a day for 6 month, contract was extended 3 times after the second i never asked for more money.

As above it'll generally come out of their cut, this recruitment guy (who the company wasn't over keen on) went back the company and asked if they were willing to pay £50 more a day!!! - i specifically told him not do this beforehand as it wont look good and he will come across negatively. I don't have to tell you what happened and they didn't use that recruitment company again.

I feel the above is basic negotiating skills, they want you on their books and even if they decline/call your bluff give some BS excuse about liking the job etc and stay.

Cheers

I have had most hassle with expenses. Travel agreed at interview, subject to expenses being paid. My contract with agency specifically has expenses at T & M additional to day rate. But agency contract with end client includes expenses in the day rate (I didnt know this bit till after I started). Agency tries to wiggle out of paying blaming the client. Fortunately I was working directly for the IT Director and we both ganged up on the agency, could have been nasty if I had been lower down the food chain.

[Admanirv]

I've done this several times. They say clients shouldn't discuss with the company what they are paying but most will if your rapport is good and they liked me.

I was on £450 per day and i found out i was getting charged out at £600 pd - it was a niche 'ish' IT contract. To me the recruitment companies are pimps simple as that.

When contract renewal came out, the recruitment guy said do you want to renew (with glee)? - i said well I've been looking about and RC people are ringing up about contracts back home which is cheaper for me thus I'll be on more money due to living at home. I said i wanted another £50 a day and they ummed/ahhed and came back with £25 i said sorry its borderline now, eventually i had to fill in some bulltulip form about my skills (playing their game) and they came back and agreed to pay £50 more a day so i was on £50 a more a day for 6 month, contract was extended 3 times after the second i never asked for more money.

As above it'll generally come out of their cut, this recruitment guy (who the company wasn't over keen on) went back the company and asked if they were willing to pay £50 more a day!!! - i specifically told him not do this beforehand as it wont look good and he will come across negatively. I don't have to tell you what happened and they didn't use that recruitment company again.

I feel the above is basic negotiating skills, they want you on their books and even if they decline/call your bluff give some BS excuse about liking the job etc and stay.

Cheers

[TheFaQQer]

Humour me, under what scenario would any client agree to regularly pay a full day rate knowing the compactor is only working half a day.

In every client that I've had.

I never bill by the half day - if I work, I bill for the day; if I don't work, I don't bill for the day. It's a fairly simple rule to follow.

In my last permie job, we closed early on Christmas Eve / last working day before Christmas, and fully expected the contractors to invoice for the full day.

[Hobosapien]

Humour me, under what scenario would any client agree to regularly pay a full day rate knowing the compactor is only working half a day...

When the contract is closer to b2b than zero hours temp. The two extremes of 'contracting'.

I know of a service contract where the 3rd party was billing the client for full days when they'd only been on a 15 minute support call that day, as it was what was agreed in the contract. Any interaction resulted in a full day's billing. Kerching.

Of course when the fees started getting ridiculous for the actual service received, some of the management questioned the terms of the contract. I expect whoever agreed and signed it off at the client was either fully incompetent in their position or were taking a backhander, or both.

Never underestimate the incompetence or corruption of 'management'.

[SueEllen]

Sod the clause. Let the agency sue for damages.

It's unprofessional!

<Snigger>

[northernladyuk]

5 hours was considered to count as a full day on one of my past contracts.
It was written in.

Not five hours of work I hope.

[MrMarkyMark]

An interesting thread

Humour me, under what scenario would any client agree to regularly pay a full day rate knowing the compactor is only working half a day.
That seems an act of folly or desperation.

Surely they could give him/her a broom or something to make use of the paid time, obviously assuming broom operation is included in said contract.
Or at least expect what they are paying for to me sitting bored rigid at a desk whilst twiddling their thumbs

Blooming weird this contracting lark. I have to deal with deranged and delusional psychotractors in foreign parts others get in this sort of confusing muddle,

5 hours was considered to count as a full day on one of my past contracts.
It was written in.

[DallasDad]

An interesting thread

Humour me, under what scenario would any client agree to regularly pay a full day rate knowing the compactor is only working half a day.
That seems an act of folly or desperation.

Surely they could give him/her a broom or something to make use of the paid time, obviously assuming broom operation is included in said contract.
Or at least expect what they are paying for to me sitting bored rigid at a desk whilst twiddling their thumbs

Blooming weird this contracting lark. I have to deal with deranged and delusional psychotractors in foreign parts others get in this sort of confusing muddle,

[northernladyuk]

There may be a clause in the contract which states you can't tell the clientCo how much you earn.

I personally always get that clause removed pointing out if clientCo management responsible for payment ask I will tell them as the agency don't have anything to hide and no-one else as it is none of their fecking business.

Sod the clause. Let the agency sue for damages.

[SueEllen]

That is a very purist contractual view. From a reputational perspective, it is very much to do with you.

Any contract I've ever had has had a daily rate for a PWD with no mention of half-days, but common sense has always prevailed when half a day is worked, recorded in a timesheet and represented in an invoice.

If the agent is behaving like this, I would be showing the end client my timesheets and invoices.

There may be a clause in the contract which states you can't tell the clientCo how much you earn.

I personally always get that clause removed pointing out if clientCo management responsible for payment ask I will tell them as the agency don't have anything to hide and no-one else as it is none of their fecking business.

[northernladyuk]

I would let the client and agency sort it out. Find out how much the agency are charging the client. When the client sacks the agency and wants you to go direct, up your rate.

Another reason to show your invoice to them so they know what the margin is (if not defined by PSL terms).

[northernladyuk]

What does your contract say about billing - is it by the hour, half-day or day? What does the contract between the client and the agency state about billing?

At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with you as long as you are invoicing the agency correctly. How the agency processes your invoice is a matter for the agency and client to resolve.

That is a very purist contractual view. From a reputational perspective, it is very much to do with you.

Any contract I've ever had has had a daily rate for a PWD with no mention of half-days, but common sense has always prevailed when half a day is worked, recorded in a timesheet and represented in an invoice.

If the agent is behaving like this, I would be showing the end client my timesheets and invoices.

[billybiro]

What do Clientco HR propose to do?

I was in a vaguely similar situation before. Clientco HR forced the agency to re-imburse all affected contractors. The agent got sacked.

And this is another reason why you should be very concerned about such a situation. Your agent's ability to pay your invoices is only as good as their cashflow, and such huge bills (and subsequently being sacked) does nothing to help it.