Q: What happens when you try to force your contractors into perm roles?

[pauldee]

...they gave notice on my (direct) contract and told me to re-engage through their new preferred agency...

Why would any client want to do that? Paying an agency fees they don't need to? No wonder they've gone down the pan. The reads like a manual of how not to run a company.

[MrLoveBucket]

PF were a client of mine for 6 months until March this year. At that point it was very clear the IT side of the changes were never going to work. The most fooked programme I've ever seen.
I already planned to get out of there at renewal time. Happily this was accelerated when they gave notice on my (direct) contract and told me to re-engage through their new preferred agency, who promptly offered me a rate cut. (Incidentally the same agency who had done that to me on my very first contract - I sucked it up at the time.) Thanks ReThink!

[pauldee]

Would it not have made sense to start employing a few permies to begin with then replace the contractors gradually?

[blacjac]

My dad was actually a collector for them self employed. The reasons this all happened (and could easily have been avoided) are:

1. They gave the collectors over 3 months notice it was happening, and told them they wouldn't be making any decisions on the permanent jobs for 2.5 months - so most just got another job then quit.

2. A large %age of the collectors were part time, they wanted to replace them all with full time people (offering a surprisingly decent wage mind), most of the collectors were part time for a reason (semi retired - working multiple jobs etc...) so they just quit and got another part time job.

3. The new software (app based) was outsourced and is a real tulip show, my dad is still in touch with someone on who got one of the permanent jobs.
The employees are no longer allowed to chose their own routes, they have to go where the app says when it says. The people who programmed the routes have no idea about Geography. On my dad's mate's first day with the new route, the app sent him from Bridlington -> Richmond -> Filey -> York -> Bridlington.
They managed to make 8 collections in an 8 hour shift where perviously they were doing over 30.


As my dad is semi retired and worked 2 days a week in his home town, he decided to apply for one of the jobs, just to see what happened, and just retire when the switchover happened.
Out of an area of over 200 agents, there were 2 applicants for 3 jobs.
Needless to say he got the job and was offered nearly 30k salary.
This is more than he has ever earned in his life and couldn't say no.
However, as the day drew closer the terms of the employment kept changing, first he was doing set hours within 50 miles from home and mileage allowance.
That gradually changed to 8 hour shifts working 5 /7 days rolling, a radius of 200 miles from home, starting 50 miles from home (probably as they started to panic), so he changed his mind.

He now works 2 days a week as a self employed collection agent in his home town for a lender that isn't Provident - which most of his ex colleagues also do....

[northernladuk]

Apologies NLUK! Being a newbie I thought that self-employed via a contract = contractor. I know I have a lot to learn. Your guidance, patience and understanding will be really appreciated.

Blimey. Bit greedy aint ya. I struggle with any one of those, let alone all three!!!!

[Nominally]

When was a self employed agent ever a contractor??

Apologies NLUK! Being a newbie I thought that self-employed via a contract = contractor. I know I have a lot to learn. Your guidance, patience and understanding will be really appreciated.

[barrydidit]

I had a discussion with their head of legal on the subject. He seemed quite confident they were not employees, I disagreed...

Reading between the lines here, their business model did rely on these guys. They had a certain amount of autonomy regarding who they lent to, and their pay was based on what they managed to collect back. I guess the basic money they were being offered as employees wasn't enough to tempt them to stay on so they haven't. The problem then for Home Credit, is that they have lent out a load of money and don't have the army of agents to go and physically collect it, which is how their business works. They had problem enough with people hiding behind the sofa when the Provident man came round as it was, imagine what happens when the Provident man doesn't come round?

Edit - the story has been updated to say the collection rate has dropped from 90% to 57%. I'm guessing the loans aren't priced for anything near that kind of rate

[BrilloPad]

When was a self employed agent ever a contractor??

Dodgy Ron and his iron bar is. One off gigs. No MOO. Only a verbal contractor but so what.

[northernladuk]

When was a self employed agent ever a contractor??

Edit : That said I know a couple of sales people that have managed to wangle it with who they work for to use a Ltd as we do and it pisses me off royally. Why aren't HMRC going after them instead of leaving IT alone for a bit.

[Nominally]

Oh!

Wow! Okay. There must be a lot more to that story than meets the eyes then. #complexity

[barrydidit]

Having spend a couple of years in that business, I can assure you that those home collection agents really were employees all along.

[Nominally]

A: Nothing good

Provident Financial shares dive on new profit warning - BBC News