Reply to: Contract to permie Salary Worth it ????

[chopper]

I was more demonstrating that 236 is an unreasonable number to use for billing days if you're trying to compare with permanent days worked.

Exactly - in the year since 1st September I've billed 205.5 days and expect to work another 11 days by the end of August. In the previous 12 months, I billed 220.5 days.

However, I've been lucky that this has been my choice - none of those have been sick days. That level of time off for leisure purposes is entirely unthinkable in the permie world. Don't go contracting to go and work 236 days. Even permies 'only' do 232 days (52x5 = 260, less 28 mandatory days off).

[blackeye]

If you've managed to go from a 55k permie, to a 90k permie, while you've been working as an interim worker, it means you've picked up the skills to jump a career band without having to climb the 'career ladder', with all the associated BS.

Whether you take the job really depends on your industry and skillset. There is a lot of generic rubbish thrown around here, that "contracting is doomed" and there are no longer any roles left. But in reality, if you certain skills that are in demand, there is plenty of work and longevity.

If you think you can maintain in contracts for the next 5 years, stick with it because you will make more money. If you have any doubt, take the perm role because despite all the job cuts, it's more predictable.

[fatJock]

My advice? Avoid any agencies who start their opening gambit with "I've got a solid six month contract fitting doors" unless you hear unattended to squeaking in the background.

HTH.

[r08813]

Two factors to bear in mind. Firstly, is the type of work you do more suitable for a contractor or a permie? And secondly, do you put money aside to cover for time on the bench?

So,(bear with me on this), lets talk about doors. You fit one in a wall, it takes a short amount of time to do, but once finished it lasts for years and gives you a lot of use. You don't need a permie to fit a door, you need a skilled freelance tradesman who will do the job well, charge a rate that covers his time (plus a bit of profit) and then go.

Now, if you told the carpenter you wanted him to be a permie on a much lower permie salary than his freelance rate, after fitting the door, there is nothing to do, but oil the hinges once a year. You dont want to pay a carpenters salary for someone who just oils a hinge once a year and you have someone less skilled and cheaper that can do that anyway. You don't need any more doors, so you make him redundant as soon as he has finished the door. You've earned a discount and the carpenter has been dumped with no money for his enforced break.

So, If you think that the permanent job is a real permanent job, then maybe it's worth taking, but if you think the permanent job is a limited length contract in disguise, then maybe stay away or expect quick redundancy.

[PermMCCon]

There are few benefits to the permie job. And a big downside. An extra 2 hours a day. It would take a lot of money to compensate me for that.

You are full of horse sh!t. The complexity of an "contractor vs permie" role is far more complex than stating

- there are few benefits to permie job

There is an array of considerations to both! It simply isn't that simple and the decision should not be taken lightly - and this is coming from someone who remained a contractor for 5 profitable years with high day rates, and I still chose a permie job after very careful consideration with various discussion friends & family.

There is a huge number of benefits to both (that is - when you compare a high day rate to a senior role in a big bank etc, must be a fair comparison). If you compare a good day rate against a bad company where everyone hates working there, well, then it isn't a fair comparison.

Please help the newbies here properly rather than making frivolous comments.

[northernladyuk]

There are few benefits to the permie job. And a big downside. An extra 2 hours a day. It would take a lot of money to compensate me for that.

Mrs BP says that's an upside.

[BrilloPad]

There are few benefits to the permie job. And a big downside. An extra 2 hours a day. It would take a lot of money to compensate me for that.

[VillageContractor]

You simply don't. MS certificates - nobody cares. Agile coach? To certificate that you can't do anything? In finance, accounting, you need certificates, in dev world – nope. Plus everything changes too quickly and there are too many technologies. You contract is your certificate.

Certification allows you to do training courses, which is another revenue stream. In case you ever need anyone to do any training

[DanielAnthony]

To do phd part time, takes around 5-8 years plus a lot of effort. Not many (if any) companies will pay for that with a good salary. However if you are "cheap" student, some would risk investing (plus from a good uni), but again that is for a very narrow field - machine learning. That is nothing to do with 90% of dev. Phd is not training. You will have to write papers, plus final work thesis ~50k words. I would encourage to do that only if you are young . But in that case it is better to spend your time and effort on some startup. There is no right way in life, but this one is "expensive".

I'm thinking long term, with pension contributions maxing out at 1m gbp and punitive rates of taxation for high earners, doing something because it's interesting rather than lucrative becomes the deciding factor. Going contracting to avoid PAYE super-tax is also a hot topic at the moment and one that will be shut down completely in the next few years IMO. The OP is trying to decide between contracting and permdom; my point is to think about all the value-add things involved in a permie job and where he/she will be at age 55 considering the way this country is going financially, high earners paying 50%+ tax and no more tax efficient vehicles available to avoid this. I'm not saying formal training is the only factor but in a software-defined world being in a work environment that supports your learning and development is important too IMO. Additionally, your career aspirations may also be to become director/VP of a large multinational or product manager for some major software tool, only a permie job would offer this especially if you also need to do an MBA.

Its not all about the $$$

[TheFaQQer]

You simply don't. MS certificates - nobody cares. Agile coach? To certificate that you can't do anything? In finance, accounting, you need certificates, in dev world – nope. Plus everything changes too quickly and there are too many technologies. You contract is your certificate.

certificate is a noun, not a verb

I have no idea whether anyone cares about having an MS certificate, and I'm sure that there are many certificates that aren't worth that much. However, being an Oracle Certified Master certainly opens doors, in the same way that being an Oracle ACE does.

[AndrewK]

Not sure about that. DeepMind are sponsoring DPhils at Oxford (DeepMind starts paying to put PhD students through Oxford - Business Insider which is where I currently study (whilst working) and hope to go onto once I've finished my SoftEng MSc.

Vendor certs may certainly be a waste of time as logical thinking and problem-solving are not vendor specific. I find they help management and HR teams filter CV's though (rightly or wrongly) plus if you work for a vendor they like you to jump through their hoops.

To do phd part time, takes around 5-8 years plus a lot of effort. Not many (if any) companies will pay for that with a good salary. However if you are "cheap" student, some would risk investing (plus from a good uni), but again that is for a very narrow field - machine learning. That is nothing to do with 90% of dev. Phd is not training. You will have to write papers, plus final work thesis ~50k words. I would encourage to do that only if you are young . But in that case it is better to spend your time and effort on some startup. There is no right way in life, but this one is "expensive".

[DanielAnthony]

Depends on your field. In Software development you do your training yourself. All other courses are just waste of time.

Not sure about that. DeepMind are sponsoring DPhils at Oxford (DeepMind starts paying to put PhD students through Oxford - Business Insider which is where I currently study (whilst working) and hope to go onto once I've finished my SoftEng MSc.

Vendor certs may certainly be a waste of time as logical thinking and problem-solving are not vendor specific. I find they help management and HR teams filter CV's though (rightly or wrongly) plus if you work for a vendor they like you to jump through their hoops.

[AndrewK]

Unless you want / need any certification - which can be very expensive.

You simply don't. MS certificates - nobody cares. Agile coach? To certificate that you can't do anything? In finance, accounting, you need certificates, in dev world – nope. Plus everything changes too quickly and there are too many technologies. You contract is your certificate.

[TheFaQQer]

Depends on your field. In Software development you do your training yourself. All other courses are just waste of time.

Unless you want / need any certification - which can be very expensive.

[AndrewK]

Don't underestimate the value of training. With courses costing $1k-$2k per week, plus salary and accommodation, exam fee's, etc. , there is a lot of added value to being a perm at a decent employer. My current employer put me through an MSc as well as several weeks training per year.

I worked for a while with a Californian start-up doing their EMEA support, six figure salary but no training or career development, keeping yourself motivated was quite hard for me. Now I have the best of both worlds, but it is a job lottery out there.

Depends on your field. In Software development you do your training yourself. All other courses are just waste of time.