Will this make me liable for any tax in Norway?

[SueEllen]

Ive seen your post above and it all makes sense now - as I said I was over simplifying it (never good with tax).

Nothing personal but given past experience Im not asking for advice on here for anything, last time I asked for advice on tax (because HMRC were calculating tax credits based on a year before I started contracting during which I had only worked 9 months they insisted on paying us way more than we should have been getting) after a few pages of people accusing me of fraud for taking the money (not that I had a choice) I gave up and phoned HMRC who confirmed that only one person was right that I was best to take it save it and pay it back when they get my next return and realise their mistake... So If/when I need advice I will probably go directly to the relevant tax authority and get it straight from them!

Unfortunately some people see taking money for benefits of any type as fraud especially if you are suppose to be in a sector of society who appears not to need it. (The fact that there are contractors in other industries who aren't so well paid on this board is ignored.)

In regards to asking the tax authority in that country - most of the people they employ aren't going to say you can use this or that legal loophole on the phone or in writing as they like to keep their jobs, however if you go there in person you may be in luck. Even tax advisers and accountants can give you incorrect information as they may not have dealt with your situation e.g. telling you you have to pay tax from day 1 when you are moving temporarily to one of the countries that uses the employer of record model. However there are other country specific forums where you may be able to get help but you will need to find it and hope that another former UK-based IT contractor is on it.

[Snarf]

Best start a thread on the country you are intending to go to and someone will tell you there experience with some possible useful links.

Ive seen your post above and it all makes sense now - as I said I was over simplifying it (never good with tax).

Nothing personal but given past experience Im not asking for advice on here for anything, last time I asked for advice on tax (because HMRC were calculating tax credits based on a year before I started contracting during which I had only worked 9 months they insisted on paying us way more than we should have been getting) after a few pages of people accusing me of fraud for taking the money (not that I had a choice) I gave up and phoned HMRC who confirmed that only one person was right that I was best to take it save it and pay it back when they get my next return and realise their mistake... So If/when I need advice I will probably go directly to the relevant tax authority and get it straight from them!

[SueEllen]

Really? Do you have a link to that guidance? (not because I dont believe you but because It may be relevant to me in the next few months), if the co moves with the sole employee - are you saying that CT becomes due in host country?

If its just personal income that gets taxed the simple solution (for a short contract) would seem to be to take a dividend before the contract starts to tide you over and draw not a penny more from the company until the end of the contract. If it applies to CT too then that changes things, but the CT over there is only 5% higher so its not the end of the world.

Best start a thread on the country you are intending to go to and someone will tell you there experience with some possible useful links.

[SueEllen]

I know everyone above has said "YES" but that doesnt seem right to me.

Your client is in the UK, Your company is in the UK and the office in Norway that you will be working from will not be a permenant base. I dont see how tax would apply? If someone could explain it would be useful.

Ive been at permanent employers in the past who have sent staff to work abroad and those staff were not liable to the other countries taxes.. I suspect that Im wrong about this (Its tax, its cant be as simple as I think it is ) I'd suggest getting advice from an expert rather than asking on here... Ive asked advice in here before about tax and the advice I got was not only mixed depending whos replies you read but aslo completly wrong according to my accountant and HMRC when I spoke to them directly about it.

Dont take the advice of a bunch of randoms online.. Ask someone who you trust to know the correct answer

Unfortunately like many people you misunderstand that different European countries have different rules on who they define the "real" employer as. Added to that then it depends on on how long you are working in that country, what the tax regulations are in that country at that specific time you are working, the residency/ locations of the company's other directors and the size of the company.

Most countries in Europe do not recognise the one man limited company set up. They expect you to have more than one director and one other employee, as other than that you should be self-employed.

Anyway in Norway they look down the chain and establish that the "real" employer is the end client. Therefore anyone who works for that end client in Norway is liable to pay tax in Norway. It doesn't matter how many other companies or entities "employ" that worker and how long they are there, it is who that worker is doing the work for that is important. This is the economic employer model.

There as in about two other EU countries* they use the employer of record model. As long as that final company has one or more directors who is permanently resident in the UK (in this case) then the company is located in the UK. If the worker, even if they are a director, doesn't stay in that EU state over 182 days in one year then the worker is temporary. However even in these countries if the company only has one director regardless of whether they are there 10 days or 170 days the company is viewed as having relocated permanently for that time to that EU state. In addition the rules get complicated if you have a partner, relations or friends in that EU state you want to visit after you leave for 4-5 years afterwards as you could easily find yourself paying back tax for a two week holiday.

Here is one link from contractorUK explaining this:
http://www.contractoruk.com/document..._Local_Tax.pdf

There are lots of other threads on this and you can find them by Googling - the threads of interest to this particular case tend to involve Norway and Sweden.

*This changes all the time. However Nordic countries nicely put their useful tax pages in English.

[Snarf]

You forget that with a one man co the co moves with the one man, center of operations etc.

IBM and Oracle etc are different, we aren't.

Really? Do you have a link to that guidance? (not because I dont believe you but because It may be relevant to me in the next few months), if the co moves with the sole employee - are you saying that CT becomes due in host country?

If its just personal income that gets taxed the simple solution (for a short contract) would seem to be to take a dividend before the contract starts to tide you over and draw not a penny more from the company until the end of the contract. If it applies to CT too then that changes things, but the CT over there is only 5% higher so its not the end of the world.

[stek]

I know everyone above has said "YES" but that doesnt seem right to me.

Your client is in the UK, Your company is in the UK and the office in Norway that you will be working from will not be a permenant base. I dont see how tax would apply? If someone could explain it would be useful.

Ive been at permanent employers in the past who have sent staff to work abroad and those staff were not liable to the other countries taxes.. I suspect that Im wrong about this (Its tax, its cant be as simple as I think it is ) I'd suggest getting advice from an expert rather than asking on here... Ive asked advice in here before about tax and the advice I got was not only mixed depending whos replies you read but aslo completly wrong according to my accountant and HMRC when I spoke to them directly about it.

Dont take the advice of a bunch of randoms online.. Ask someone who you trust to know the correct answer

More info here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-e...working-abroad

You forget that with a one man co the co moves with the one man, centre of operations etc.

IBM and Oracle etc are different, we aren't.

I'd agree not to rely on here, the number one point of contact is the tax authorities of the country where you intend to work, but lets face it, the answer isn't going to be 'that's fine, you can work here without paying any tax' is it?


Accountants aren't international tax advisors and HMRC aren't either, the only way to be sure is diligent research or pay for advice from someone with enough knowledge and experience to guarantee their stance. And that won't be cheap so best to take a pragmatic view, namely common sense, you pay tax where the work is done.

[NotAllThere]

I know everyone above has said "YES" but that doesnt seem right to me.

Your client is in the UK, Your company is in the UK and the office in Norway that you will be working from will not be a permenant base. I dont see how tax would apply? If someone could explain it would be useful....

The tax law of the country you are working in applies. Some countries have a 183 day rule. Some do not. There is no reason why a country cannot insist that any work you do on their soil is taxable by them.

The advice given is from someone who works/has worked in Denmark. It is likely that Norway has similar rules. Other posts here suggest that trying to avoid tax in Norway attracts a world of pain.

[Snarf]

I know everyone above has said "YES" but that doesnt seem right to me.

Your client is in the UK, Your company is in the UK and the office in Norway that you will be working from will not be a permenant base. I dont see how tax would apply? If someone could explain it would be useful.

Ive been at permanent employers in the past who have sent staff to work abroad and those staff were not liable to the other countries taxes.. I suspect that Im wrong about this (Its tax, its cant be as simple as I think it is ) I'd suggest getting advice from an expert rather than asking on here... Ive asked advice in here before about tax and the advice I got was not only mixed depending whos replies you read but aslo completly wrong according to my accountant and HMRC when I spoke to them directly about it.

Dont take the advice of a bunch of randoms online.. Ask someone who you trust to know the correct answer

More info here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/paying-e...working-abroad

[stek]

Thanks. How about living in a hotel for the 3 days in the week? Will that also make me tax liable in Norway?

Yes, you can't go to another country and work there without paying any tax, each EU/EFTA state has it's own tax regime, there is no harmonisation. The only advantage you get is freedom of movement. For freedom of labour you need to register locally within 30 days as an qualified person (EU worker) otherwise you are just a tourist and not allowed to work.

Whether you wing it is up to you, I don't recommend it, you won't be entitled to health care, (EHIC is for visitors) and you have the ever-present worry of the Norwegian tax people catching up with you, and they will.

Also if it's like the Danish system the Norwegian end probs won't let you work in Norway without the Norwegian eviquilent of the Danes CPR (Central Personnummer) since if the sysyem is similair and a pound to a penny it will be, everything needs to go via your government ID. I get all mine via my Danish NemID, tax, bank, docs, the lot.

I'd imagine too a hotel would clean you out, in Copenhagen a decent cheap place might rush you £250 a night, if avaiable, given that Norway is well more expensive than Denmark, make sure you do your homework.

[skysies]

Yes, as you've been told before.

You will also be liable for any UK tax subject to DTA so factor in the cost of a tax advisor, don't leave it to your accountant. To rent a place you'll most likely need to register locally and includes registering you as a taxpayer - it's how they do it in Scandinavia.

Thanks. How about living in a hotel for the 3 days in the week? Will that also make me tax liable in Norway?

[stek]

Hi,

I'm thinking of taking a contract in Norway. The client has locations both in the UK and Norway. I'll be 3 days per week on-site in Norway, the rest of the days will be working from the UK office. I'm thinking of renting an apartment in Norway. All my family will stay in the UK.

I'll have the contract with the UK branch. Will this arrangement make me liable for any tax in Norway?

Many thanks

Yes, as you've been told before.

You will also be liable for any UK tax subject to DTA so factor in the cost of a tax advisor, don't leave it to your accountant. To rent a place you'll most likely need to register locally and includes registering you as a taxpayer - it's how they do it in Scandinavia.

[skysies]

Hi,

I'm thinking of taking a contract in Norway. The client has locations both in the UK and Norway. I'll be 3 days per week on-site in Norway, the rest of the days will be working from the UK office. I'm thinking of renting an apartment in Norway. All my family will stay in the UK.

I'll have the contract with the UK branch. Will this arrangement make me liable for any tax in Norway?

Many thanks